Around Baseball 2014

[Angrioter]

I agree with you regarding Wojo. He's behind many of Houston's top pitching prospects such as Mark Appel and Mike Foltynewicz, and probably won't make their rotation anytime soon. Wojo projects by MLB.com to be an average starter like Happ, which is something Houston does not need right now, especially when they're trying to build a contender.

 

That term does not seem to mean what you think it means.

 

Is Wocj an avg starter? - What?

[Chappy]

That term does not seem to mean what you think it means.

 

I like Happ and even I consider him below average. Woj is worthless.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Wojo had a great year last year. He's definitely not just an org guy. Would take that trade back 10/10 times.

[Chappy]

Is Wocj an avg starter? - What?

 

In AAA yes. In the bigs he is a middle reliever until something better comes along or if he gets lucky.

[Chappy]

Wojo had a great year last year. He's definitely not just an org guy. Would take that trade back 10/10 times.

 

More than likely he never has as good a career as Happ.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

I like Happ and even I consider him below average. Woj is worthless.

 

MLB ready former first round pick with a good track record and good peripherals.

 

Yeah he's not worthless

[Chappy]

MLB ready former first round pick with a good track record and good peripherals.

 

Yeah he's not worthless

 

Most first rounders fail. Woj has done nothing special since being drafted to warrant that pick. He might be a half decent prospect, but let's not kid ourselves.

[Chappy]

Cheap depth, back end starter is not worthless. He serves a purpose.

 

Sure, he is a fine depth piece, but let's not kid ourselves.

[DuckDuckGose]

That term does not seem to mean what you think it means.

 

Nah but, Happ is a fine option in the 5 spot. Considering the LD to the head averaging 5.1IP/start is pretty decent.

[DuckDuckGose]

I'd take that trade back 10 times on 10 to free up the $5.4 million Happ is owed this year.

 

I've been saying this for awhile now but acquiring Happ wasn't a bad move. Giving up assets for Lyon and Carpenter was inane.

[DuckDuckGose]

Most first rounders fail. Woj has done nothing special since being drafted to warrant that pick. He might be a half decent prospect, but let's not kid ourselves.

 

Wojc is still building innings at 24, he wont pitch a full season in the majors until 2015 at the earliest and 2016 (his age 26 season) is far more likely since he has options and isn't that good.

[Chappy]

Wojc is still building innings at 24, he wont pitch a full season in the majors until 2015 at the earliest and 2016 (his age 26 season) is far more likely since he has options and isn't that good.

 

Fair assessment.

[connorp]

Most first rounders fail. Woj has done nothing special since being drafted to warrant that pick. He might be a half decent prospect, but let's not kid ourselves.

 

But what are we comparing him to? A guy thats been a 1 WAR guy on average over the last 4-5 seasons. Save me the money and give me Wojo and i will hope he gives 1 WAR at literally 1/10 the cost

[DuckDuckGose]

130 innings in 2011

137 innings in 2012

160 innings in 2013

 

He'll get up over 180IP in 2014 I'd imagine but, most of those innings will be in AAA. Then he'd have to break camp with the Stros in 2015 which isn't that likely.

[ElNik2013]

If the other prospects sent to Houston end up amounting to nothing, the Jays may end up having traded a future 5th starter for a present one. We know that Perez was exposed to the rule 5 draft already.

[DuckDuckGose]

Oh I agree that Happ is fine as a 5th starter, I'm just not a fan of spending $5.4 million on him. I know, $/WAR says he's worth it, but that production can be replaced internally and the money could have been put to better use IMO. Do we lose anything with Redmond, Rogers, Hutchison, or Stroman over Happ? Hell, invite a few starters to ST on tryouts and one or two are probably good enough to do what Happ does.

 

The issue isn't with Happ though, it's the piss poor asset and budget management by AA and co. If they didn't have 25% of their payroll tied up in Buehrle and Reyes (and no way to move them and compete) Happ's contract would never come in to question.

[connorp]

I will just go with what BTS said.. Its not even about Wojo..

 

I just dont see point paying guy $5+m when you can get same production or better fir $500k

[DuckDuckGose]

You barely have to hope. Both Steamer and Oliver think Woj and Happ are about equal this year.

 

f*** Steamer and Oliver though, two of the worst mainstream projection systems.

[DuckDuckGose]

I will just go with what BTS said.. Its not even about Wojo..

 

I just dont see point paying guy $5+m when you can get same production or better fir $500k

 

And then scramble and make a bad move for Happ-lite when you need the depth.

[ElNik2013]

In all honesty, I've whined about the Happ trade as much as the next guy, but let's be honest, the rotation was decimated by injuries at the time, not to mention Romero's implosion. I think only Henderson Alvarez was left standing at the time.

[ElNik2013]

I will just go with what BTS said.. Its not even about Wojo..

 

I just dont see point paying guy $5+m when you can get same production or better fir $500k

 

 

 

Except that none of the other options presently available were options at the time Happ was acquired.

[John_Havok]

Ken, if Happ is a #5 on a good team, then why would we trade him for a bag of balls? Either you think our team is elite, or you consider his $5M salary to be a hindrance to our already nearly $135M payroll. It just doesn't add up.

 

I respect your opinion, but this Happ hate from half the board is a load of crap. He has value.

 

For me, it's not so much hate for Happ, but I hate what he represents; AA falling in love with a player who he couldn't get in trade the first time he tried, continuing to have a hard-on for him a few years later even though it was obvious that he wasn't the quality SP AA thought could be, but not altering his opinion of the player and give up assets for him in trade when he could have signed a similar or better pitcher in free agency for similar dollars without giving up the assets.

[ElNik2013]

Who cares?

 

 

Those who operate the franchise obviously cared enough to trade for a starter.

[connorp]

And then scramble and make a bad move for Happ-lite when you need the depth.

 

Except we have a small army of guys that would be better options than making another stupid move like that

[DuckDuckGose]

I dunno. I don't think I'd ever be all that thrilled about paying $5+ million for an unreliable 4.5+ ERA arm who can't get out of the 6th inning.

 

Averaging 5.1 is different than not being able to go in to the 6th. He pitched 7 multiple times last season and has 3 career CG.

[connorp]

Those who operate the franchise obviously cared enough to trade for a starter.

 

Too bad they werent using much foresight or realistic view on their current situation

[DuckDuckGose]

Except we have a small army of guys that would be better options than making another stupid move like that

 

We have a couple guys, Hutch and Stroman who could be significantly better than Happ and a bunch of guys who are similar but with far more risk. The whole point is to have enough depth to be 7-8 starters deep and at this point the Jays need Happ to be one of those guys. If they add a starter or two he can be shipped out but, right now they can't afford to lose decent MLB innings.

[kgm1]

Ken, if Happ is a #5 on a good team, then why would we trade him for a bag of balls? Either you think our team is elite, or you consider his $5M salary to be a hindrance to our already nearly $135M payroll. It just doesn't add up.

 

I respect your opinion, but this Happ hate from half the board is a load of crap. He has value.

 

Vik , I said he isn't a #5 on a good team and the 5.4 million he is eating up is preventing adding wins in other areas

[connorp]

My point was that they shouldn't have. The season was over. If the rotation is in shambles, make a waiver claim or two and run the clock out on the year.

 

Exactly.

[Chappy]

For me, it's not so much hate for Happ, but I hate what he represents; AA falling in love with a player who he couldn't get in trade the first time he tried, continuing to have a hard-on for him a few years later even though it was obvious that he wasn't the quality SP AA thought could be, but not altering his opinion of the player and give up assets for him in trade when he could have signed a similar or better pitcher in free agency for similar dollars without giving up the assets.

 

I get the giving up the assets part, but it's not like he gave up anything of any real significance. I think too many people over value mediocre prospects on this forum. Value is one thing, but let's see if he even provides any before calling that deal a fail.