Blue Jays Cardinals Proposed Trade

[apoc10]

New to the board and this is a proposal I’ve analyzed and put together. Let me know what you guys think. Just thinking out of the box. I’m trying to take all the rumours and facts out there and tried to facilitate a possible scenario.

 

Based on general sentiment, AA wants to complete to following tasks:

1) Find starting pitching (#1,#2 calibre)

2) Stay competitive

 

and I believe the following are nice to haves,

2) Find 2B

3) Shed salary

4) Get young and controllable players

 

I think St. Louis makes a good trade partner as their needs and surplus of certain resources matches well with our needs and surplus of resources.

 

St. Louis have an issue at 2B with Matt Carpenter and Kolten Wong, while needing to fill the SS position. They are also losing RF Beltran to free agency, however are getting a compensation pick for giving him QO. They also have a surplus of MLB ready pitching, while having a approx. $40mil of salary coming off the books with Furcal, beltran, carpenter, westbrook, mujica. They were also looking for a proven closer and would like to move hot prospect Carlos Martinez into the rotation.

 

They don't want to go free agent route because of the ridiculous prices being asked. Drew for 15mill/year, Granderson 20mill/year, Beltran 16 mill/year, so the trade route is any option with a plethora of prospects at their disposal.

 

Recap: Glut of 2B, Glut of Starters, still searching for closer, RF replacement, SS replacement,

 

The Blue Jays may line up very well with the Cardinals and they’ve worked together before with the Rasmus trade that helped them win a World Series that year.

 

The Jays may be looking to trade Bautista due to his age, but he is still producing and has an extremely friendly contract for the next 3 years. The turf doesn’t help the aging process. With all the talk about his behavior, may be good for a change of scenery. We were looking to promote Gose and even Sierra had hit well at the end of the year and in Dominican league right now. Rasmus has emerged as a great CF, and Gose best position would be RF. He needs to learn to hit, but his speed and defense would be most beneficial in RF. Also, the hit tools will be acquired for in the trade as I detail below.

 

Reyes, although a good leadoff hitter, he’s definitely someone I think the cardinals would prefer and they are willing to even taking on Tulo’s salary. He’s making 18mill/year, but that’s 82 mill over next 4 years. He’s a bit unlucky with the injuries last year, but the turf is not something every player can deal with, and like Bautista, as they age, it gets worth. He was missing for lineup for large parts of the year and we still finished with a solid offense. We don’t have an exact replacement for SS, but finding average SS are easier. Rockies asking for like miller and matt adams.

 

Janssen was great closer and the talk of getting the most value for him now is what everyone was looking for. His contract expires soon, and we the emergence of our bullpen, as well as the numerous backend starting rotation options, he has become expendable. I think Santos as closer or even Delabar would be acceptable.

 

Here’s the trade:

 

Blue Jays

Bautista 14mill/year (42 over 3)

Reyes 16 mill (82 over 4)

Janssen 4mill in 2014

 

St. Louis

Shelby Miller (SP) (15-9, 3.06 ERA, 173IP, 9 SO/9)

Carlos Martinez (SP)/Kevin Siegrist

Oscar Taveras (LF) (#2 prospects in all of baseball) they got Bautista holding RF for the next 3 years.

Kolten Wong (2B)

 

Free Agent Signings: Both our top two picks are protected so signing free agents this year is the most optimum.

 

Sign C, which falls in line with what the team wants to do anyway.

Sign SS, if we feel the necessity as izturis can’t secure SS role. Take a flier on pehralta, inge, Michael young, or trade for aybar, or alexei Ramirez?

Get a 4th veteran OF if necessary. A good team balance of young and veterans.

 

Jays

Lineup – Order can change

Gose (RF))

Cabrera/Taveras (LF)

Encarnacion (1B)

Rasmus (CF)

Lawrie (3B)

Lind (DH)

Wong/Goins (2B)

Izturis/Trade or Sign (SS)

C? Pierzynski/Arencibia

 

Bench: Goins, Sierra, Pillar, Thole,

Rotation: Dickey, Miller, Buerhle, Morrow, Happ

Bullpen: Santos, Delabar, Cecil, Mcgowan, Loup, Wagner, Rogers, ?, ?, ?

 

Drabek, Hutch, Nolin, Stroman, Redmond, Rogers, Romero, J. Perez, L. Perez, Jeffress, Jenkins as options going forward in the spots #4 and #5 or bullpen. We could even trade Happ as it’s been mentioned for SS.

 

Points of Discussion

People are discussing Miller/Matt Adams/Siegrist for Tulo and also look at last years James Shield trade for Wil Myers and Odorozzi. I think we could ask for more if we wanted to as it’s Miller/Martinez for Reyes and Taveras/Wong for Bautista. Other points of discussion is that look what boston did by trading away Gonzo and Crawford, they didn’t mortgage the ability to compete, but they were able to grab prospects, and unload salary, while also using that extra cap room to spend on the components they needed to compete the next year. With way CBA changed the rules and how people are locking up their younger star pitchers, it seems like you can’t just go buy all-star pitchers, they never become available. This keeps the team competitive with a good looking rotation, with an offense that could

 

I agree that the lineup is young and unproven, but Taveras is as close as you can get in terms of mlb ready hitting prospect outside of Buxton and Myers, and Miller is a proven pitcher. Wong is a solid hit tool for 2B.

[Abomination]

I have significant doubts that the Cardinals could add that much salary even if they were inclined to sell off that many top prospects (which I also doubt)

[G-Snarls]

First, welcome to the board

 

Agree the salary implications are the main problem here for STL in this instance but I appreciate how well thought out it is

[z3r0s]

Everyone mentions salary as the big issue in this case but he did mentioned they have BIG salary coming off the books. I don't think they would give up that much talent myself. As has also been said, it would be nice .

 

IF salary was the main deterrent to us getting those guys, I'd throw in some bucks if I was AA

 

Welcome to the board apoc10!

[Dr. Dinger]

The Cards wouldn't even move Taveras for Bautista, this thread is preposterous bordering on trolling.

[GD]

This wouldn't happen but I see plausibility in certain parts. I think all pieces being sent are good fits on STL and I could see STL moving any of the pieces you listed. All together, probably not. Very nice first post here, well thought out.

 

I think we should be pouncing on a trade, probably some portion of this, with STL. Maybe sell Jose to the Rangers for Profar then slide him in at SS and move Reyes for x to STL.

[z3r0s]

Cards would look sexy next year though.

 

Reyes SS

Carp 2B

Craig 1B

Bautista RF

Molina C

Holliday LF

Freese 3B

Jay CF

P

 

Kozma

Adams

Cruz

Robinson

 

Wainwright

Wacha

Lynn

Rosenthal

Kelly

 

CL Janssen

 

That looks almost as good as Dinger;s DDL team!!

[z3r0s]

Yeah, it was a great post, but we've all been over these things even integrating a Tex swing to it, but that's exactly how you make a great impression as a new poster, bravo!!

 

I don't disagree with many of the critiques of the post, but you gotta be welcoming

[TRM]

That looks almost as good as Dinger;s DDL team!!

 

Puhlease... Kid can't even win a playoff matchup. Or a regular season title.

[Angrioter]

Blue Jays

Bautista 14mill/year (42 over 3)

Reyes 16 mill (82 over 4)

Janssen 4mill in 2014

 

St. Louis

Shelby Miller (SP) (15-9, 3.06 ERA, 173IP, 9 SO/9)

Carlos Martinez (SP)/Kevin Siegrist

Oscar Taveras (LF) (#2 prospects in all of baseball) they got Bautista holding RF for the next 3 years.

Kolten Wong (2B)

 

 

Welcome bro

 

Blue Jays big market team

Cards small market team.

 

The Cardinals are an elite team without spending much money. Cards don't need invert that kind of money.

[Angrioter]

Exactly mate, tu eres mericon.

 

Ambos somos maricones. Nos encantan los penes.

[connorp]

The Cards wouldn't even move Taveras for Bautista, this thread is preposterous bordering on trolling.

 

Agreed. Clearly

[Angrioter]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH89H4-g3bE

[ace3113]

Okay, I'm going to pull a Northof49 here until we get more likes. Who here hasn't liked my Tanaka page yet. There's only 7 "likes" which is less than half the people on this site. It takes like two seconds.

 

Log into Facebook

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

---

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

[ace3113]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH89H4-g3bE

 

Angelo have you liked the page yet? It takes two seconds.

 

Log into Facebook

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

---

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

[admin]

Thinking of just becoming a full time Cards fan. This organization was on the same path, and threw it all away in one offseason. Unbelievable.

Everyone thought they wouldn't be good at all without Pujols. Look at them now.

Seems like every one of their prospects comes up and is a star immediately.

[DuckDuckGose]

Long post. Never going to happen.

[Funky]

My first post as well. Liked the original posters thoughtfulness and articulation but I agree it might be to much money for the Cards to take on.

 

Would still like to see a simplified version

 

Reyes for Miller and Adams - cheaper version of Lind

 

Of course this would be contingent on trading

 

Bautista to the Rangers for Profar and a prospect

 

We slash 30 mil a year off payroll and gain some ready to play youth.

 

I know people wont like the Bautista trade but I would be all over a 21 year old 5 tool SS/ 2B.

 

Add to this a pitcher with top 2 capability and payroll flexibility to grab a true 2B, C, and SP I am sold. Want a true young core to build around

[ElNik2013]

My first post as well. Liked the original posters thoughtfulness and articulation but I agree it might be to much money for the Cards to take on.

 

Would still like to see a simplified version

 

Reyes for Miller and Adams - cheaper version of Lind

 

Of course this would be contingent on trading

 

Bautista to the Rangers for Profar and a prospect

 

We slash 30 mil a year off payroll and gain some ready to play youth.

 

I know people wont like the Bautista trade but I would be all over a 21 year old 5 tool SS/ 2B.

 

Add to this a pitcher with top 2 capability and payroll flexibility to grab a true 2B, C, and SP I am sold. Want a true young core to build around

 

 

 

Look, your proposed trades won't take place this off season, but I can definitely see the Blue Jays admitting defeat by next July and into next off season.

[BarrysSyringe]

Look, your proposed trades won't take place this off season, but I can definitely see the Blue Jays admitting defeat by next July and into next off season.

Fantasy Offseason:

Reyes, Janssen, and Gose to Cards for Miller and Tavares

Bautista to Texas for Profar.

Imagine having two young studs in Profar and Tavares going forward into the future along with Shelby. Do the Cards value Miller or Martinez higher?

[kgm1]

Good post, well thought out, but said scenarios have been regurgitated on here to no end. So not really out of the box thinking, Cards would never take on that much salary, nor give up that much youth. Alex wouldn't be able to get the lube on in time before Mozeliak kicked him in the nuts.

 

Welcome and Cheers!

 

Thx Jay , I needed a chuckle and the that one got me laughing

[DuckDuckGose]

My first post as well. Liked the original posters thoughtfulness and articulation but I agree it might be to much money for the Cards to take on.

 

Would still like to see a simplified version

 

Reyes for Miller and Adams - cheaper version of Lind

 

Of course this would be contingent on trading

 

Bautista to the Rangers for Profar and a prospect

 

We slash 30 mil a year off payroll and gain some ready to play youth.

 

I know people wont like the Bautista trade but I would be all over a 21 year old 5 tool SS/ 2B.

 

Add to this a pitcher with top 2 capability and payroll flexibility to grab a true 2B, C, and SP I am sold. Want a true young core to build around

 

Definitely better to move Reyes and Jose seperately. As you said too much money to get good value back.

[DuckDuckGose]

Welcome Funky!

 

Welcome Funky. Definitely a well thOught out first post.

[Fearthedoc]

I find that hard to believe... I have an elite player at every position (if you count Jed Lowrie). My pitching staff is very mediocre though.

 

Wait, why would anyone count Jed Lowrie as elite?

[Randy The Robot]

TLDR:

St. Louis

Bautista

Reyes

Janssen

 

Blue Jays

Shelby Miller

Carlos Martinez

Oscar Taveras

Kolten Wong

- This is a ridiculous trade proposal based off talent alone. If Cards trade Wong; they have a hole a third since Freese isn't any good anymore. Miller is only available in a trade for Tulo. Taveras is clearly untouchable. Janssen has no use to the Cardinals. They already have about 6 really good young relievers that will be blocked next year. Trading for Bautista would block Adams; a guy who is capable of putting of similar offensive numbers as Bautista next year. Reyes is old and overpayed and the Cardinals have said they are looking for a young cost controlled short stop. A potential superstar in Taveras, a rookie coming off a great season with ace potential, a prospect with front of the rotation stuff and their future at secondbase, all of which are dirt cheap for the next six years; for a reliever they don't need, an old injury prone short stop who is good not great, and an old RF that will block Adams. Plus in terms of value Jays win in a landslide.

[GD]

Trading for Bautista would block Adams; a guy who is capable of putting of similar offensive numbers as Bautista next year.

 

Bautista Steamer projection: 144 wRC+

Adams Steamer projection: 120 wRC+

 

lol

[apoc10]

I think it's a bit far fetched, hence why I just threw it out there, but it's really about what the cardinals organization values and I've been on their message boards and people were willing to give up Miller, high level player and prospects for Tulo, but they were also weary of the length of his contract. Reyes contract is shorter and they both have injury concerns, but everyone admits that Reyes injury was a freak accident. Reyes is also a switch hitter and would be playing on grass in the national league, which he's familiar with. Like I said, look what James Shield brought back in a trade, I know he's a starter, but I think top elite players are tough to trade for in general and you have to pay to get what you want. I think young and cost controlled shortstop that is a superstar is impossible to find. I think they would prefer a proven shortstop, and under a solid contract. Given what Stephen Drew is going to pull in on the open market, Reyes salary won't look so bad. Like I said, the cardinals have $40million coming off the books and they can afford Reyes 16mill salary for 2014. It balances out given Bautista's cheap salary.

 

Wong is not a third basemen and plays second and is blocked by matt carpenter and the fact they give up on a former playoff MVP is something not likely. Selling on him on one bad year I doubt it. They'll probably keep Freese for another season. Their hole is at shortstop and right field. Matt Adams plays first and Allen Craig could probably play a corner field, but the defense is suspect and Bautista's killer arm in RF with instant power could easily replace Beltran. Adams is still young and could be bait for another trade, but neither are them are true right fielders. Bautista vs. Beltran is that Bautista is younger and going to be a cheaper contract, and letting beltran go still gets them a first round pick in an upcoming VERY DEEP DRAFT. Also, Bautista has the flexibility to play third which is quite advantageous for the cardinals if Freese does falter. It's hard to find that type of versatility in a player of Bautista calibre and it plays right into the Cardinals hands. Taveras is still unproven and might be good, but again, there's risk he could flame out. Remember James Shield got Wil Myers and Jake Odorri and prospects, while the Cardinals will get Bautista plus first round pick for letting Beltran go.

 

Wong also is completely unproven in MLB.

 

The Cardinals were looking for a proven closer hence the trade for john axford and adding someone cheap like Janssen who proved himself in the AL East is something that they would not mind. I don't think he's no use, but he does have some value as a proven closer. But he's part of the deal as more of a sweetner as the meat of the trade is Bautista and Reyes. If we included Delabar or Cecil who were all-stars last year could be something that could work as well and they are controllable for cheap, but that's offset by the fact they were not closers. But you could sell the trade as the Cardinals getting 3 all-stars, with two of them being perennial all-stars. Young relievers are great, but I they're looking to change a few of them into starters if possible as there's much more value in that.

 

Maybe the Jays need to throw in some money in this trade, or maybe the cardinals will alter the prospects in the trade.

 

But if tulo = Miller, Lynn, prospects, or Hardy = Miller and prospects,

then doing a weighted trade:

 

Reyes = Miller + 1/2 Martinez + 1/4 wong

Bautista = Taveras +1/2 Martinez +1/4 Wong

Janssen = 1/2 Wong

and we throw in cash.

 

Maybe things change and they take out Martinez and put in another prospect, or maybe Jays add in more cash or a prospect for them. Jays have risk in that they are acquiring unproven MLB prospects, it's not like they're getting Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Manny Machado here. While Cardinals have possible injury concerns, but that's a lot of players.

 

It's funny, because I've heard responses the Jays are giving up too much, while others say Cardinals are giving up too much. That means, I'm probably nearing somewhere in the middle.

[apoc10]

The Axford trade just shows what Cardinals are willing to give up to get a closer. Maybe they do value relief a little bit more. Dotel and Rzep helped them win world Series.

[Fearthedoc]

He was the #6 guy in 2013, shortstop is really shallow. I guess that doesn't necessarily make him elite though. I'd say Kemp is elite as a 3OF but he does have a few question marks.

 

Exactly. He may be a solid middle tier shortstop but there are only 2 shortstops you can actually consider "elite" fantasy options. (I wouldn't qualify Reyes as elite in an OBP/SLG league).

 

Lowrie is also has a career line of .264/.332/.415, so it's not like he's some safe bet. He has one good, not great, year and has injury history on top of that. He has good pop, will probably record a 5-10 ranked slash line, but offers no speed. Short version: a quality option at shortstop but nowhere near elite.

 

I also agree with you on Kemp. When healthy, I still think he can be a very effective option. I would be surprised if he doesn't hit at least 20/20 over a full season.

[The Cats Ass]

TLDR:

St. Louis

Bautista -

Reyes

Janssen

 

Blue Jays

Shelby Miller

Carlos Martinez

Oscar Taveras

Kolten Wong

 

Can't say I could see it happening. Thats a lot of talent the Cardinals would be giving up for players who would be declining soon.

 

If I was the jays, I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

I'd do that. No way cardinals do