Josh Johnson qualifying offer thread

[gruber92]

He turned down 1 year offers worth more money to play in San Diego

 

This is so f***ed up. So lets say he has a decent year in San Diego. Are GM's going to line up and pay big bucks for his services based on pitching in San Diego? I think times are changing and i don't think GMs are as quick to sign the JJ types. JJ and his agent will be disappointed this time next year.

[gruber92]

or TDA and SynderLander for Dickey?

 

This trade is worse. The Marlins trade were full of prospects that will probably never pan out to be impact MLB players. Yunel hurt us and Hech will probably be a good NL bench player. The others will amount to nothing.

[The Cats Ass]

or TDA and SynderLander for Dickey?

 

That one is just as bad. I didn't like it. I tried convincing myself it was a good trade because it was going to put us over the top. But it was bad.

 

It's even worse when you take into account that this trade made the Dickey trade feasible in the eyes of those in charge.

 

If those two trades were one, then I could see it as one of the worst trades in MLB history.

 

They could both be one of the worst even if they're not combined.

[Angrioter]

That one is just as bad. I didn't like it. I tried convincing myself it was a good trade because it was going to put us over the top. But it was bad.

 

 

 

They could both be one of the worst even if they're not combined.

 

The best minor leagues player of the most valuable position in the game and Noah "NO RP but #2 upside" Syndergaard for a 40 years old pitcher with the most unpredictable pitch in the game

[Key22]

I liked this trade when it first happened. We gave up a lot but it looked like we were getting a ton of good pieces back that would help us compete.

 

Right now, I think this will end up not only as one of the worse Blue Jays trades ever but one of the worst trades ever in MLB. This is right up there with Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore for half a year of Bartolo Colon.

 

Reyes is an all-star caliber shortstop and Beuhrle is a #3 based on numbers.

 

Henderson Alvarez

Adeiny Hechavarria

Yunel Escobar

Jake Marisnick

Jeff Mathis

Justin Nicolino

Anthony DeSclafani

 

What from this list is an all-star caliber player or a number 3 starter?

 

All the pitchers are projected to be relievers. Marisnick is AAAA player. Hechavarria was an atrocious hitter last season and Mathis is an all glove no bat catcher and before he came to Toronto was ranked as the WORST hitting catcher in the HISTORY of Major League baseball. They could not wait to get rid of him in LA.

 

The Jays got the best players in the trade. Now if anyone on the Marlins "get" list turns into something special then and only then do you call this a bad trade. Reyes got hurt but he was excellent before and pretty solid after the injury.

[Tuco]

I'd say its a little to early to be calling Marisnick a AAAA player at the point.

[connorp]

Totally makes sense what JJ's agent was doing when toying around with Jays that JJ may be open to come back on 1 year deal..lol..AA prob offered 1/10 and the agent is like "f*** you sucker".. No way a team like SD would've given up 1st round pick

[The Cats Ass]

Reyes is an all-star caliber shortstop and Beuhrle is a #3 based on numbers.

 

Henderson Alvarez

Adeiny Hechavarria

Yunel Escobar

Jake Marisnick

Jeff Mathis

Justin Nicolino

Anthony DeSclafani

 

What from this list is an all-star caliber player or a number 3 starter?

 

All the pitchers are projected to be relievers. Marisnick is AAAA player. Hechavarria was an atrocious hitter last season and Mathis is an all glove no bat catcher and before he came to Toronto was ranked as the WORST hitting catcher in the HISTORY of Major League baseball. They could not wait to get rid of him in LA.

 

The Jays got the best players in the trade. Now if anyone on the Marlins "get" list turns into something special then and only then do you call this a bad trade. Reyes got hurt but he was excellent before and pretty solid after the injury.

 

Way way way too early to call Marisnick a AAAA Player, he's only 22 years old and cracked the majors last year. Since when was Justin Nicolino projected to be a reliever... Anthony DeSclafani was good last year too, and he was starting. Henderson Alvarez seems to be coming along good as a starter too. Yunel Escobar was already a good SS on a great contract. Hechavarria does have a terrible bat at this point but he could be a starter on a few teams on his glove alone. Only player in that deal that is bad is Jeff Mathis, and he was still better then our starting catcher last year.

 

As for the "Reyes is an all-star caliber shortstop and Beuhrle is a #3 based on numbers." part, yes they are. But we could get someone like Buehrle for the same price any year on the free-agent market without giving up assets to do so. Reyes is good, but we could have got him for nothing the previous year, and could have got him a lot cheaper from the Marlins because everyone knew they wanted to shed his huge contract before his expensive years.

[The Cats Ass]

Yeah. And all of those assets we gave up were going to be very cheap and under team control for there first 6 MLB seasons. Yet we traded them away...for aging expensive veterans.

 

Yup. At first the trade looked like it could have been a win for us. Jump ahead a year later to right now, it's looking like it's a huge lose for us. In 5 years if all those prospects bust and Henderson Alvarez regresses then and only then would this trade jump back into our favour.

[Boxcar]

You forgot to take salaries into account.

 

I'm laughing at you calling Marisnick a AAAA player.

 

He might be AAAA if you're rating his handsomeness.

[8D]

He might be AAAA if you're rating his handsomeness.

 

HJM in another uniform now only gives you a half chub?

[Angrioter]

He might be AAAA if you're rating his handsomeness.

 

Cute

[Boxcar]

HJM in another uniform now only gives you a half chub?

 

More like a 2x4 rather than solid granite. Those Marlins unis are fugly.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I knew someone would say something like this

 

It does not matter what way you interpret the trades, any way you look at them they will still be s***

 

There is no way you can write off the Dickey trade as horrible at this point even though it may end up being so. Dickey is only one

year removed from a Cy Young, pitches a ton on innings, and has a fairly modest salary considering where starting pitcher salaries are

going. The prospects they gave up have yet to make any mark in the majors.

 

If Dickey puts in a great season next year and D'Arnaud never amounts to much more then an average catcher, it will rest entirely

on Syndegaard how this deal looks. Dickey for D'Arnaud alone might still have ended being a decent trade still for the Jays, but

I think Syndegaard was a mistake ( and I have a feeling Stroman will be a similar guy, so the Jays need to keep him ).

[Nox]

There is no way you can write off the Dickey trade as horrible at this point even though it may end up being so. Dickey is only one

year removed from a Cy Young, pitches a ton on innings, and has a fairly modest salary considering where starting pitcher salaries are

going. The prospects they gave up have yet to make any mark in the majors.

 

If Dickey puts in a great season next year and D'Arnaud never amounts to much more then an average catcher, it will rest entirely

on Syndegaard how this deal looks. Dickey for D'Arnaud alone might still have ended being a decent trade still for the Jays, but

I think Syndegaard was a mistake ( and I have a feeling Stroman will be a similar guy, so the Jays need to keep him ).

 

So in other words, one should judge a trade with a heavy dose of hindsight. Right.

[Sammy225]

There is no way you can write off the Dickey trade as horrible at this point even though it may end up being so. Dickey is only one

year removed from a Cy Young, pitches a ton on innings, and has a fairly modest salary considering where starting pitcher salaries are

going. The prospects they gave up have yet to make any mark in the majors.

 

If Dickey puts in a great season next year and D'Arnaud never amounts to much more then an average catcher, it will rest entirely

on Syndegaard how this deal looks. Dickey for D'Arnaud alone might still have ended being a decent trade still for the Jays, but

I think Syndegaard was a mistake ( and I have a feeling Stroman will be a similar guy, so the Jays need to keep him ).

 

The way I see it you judge on current value and Syndergaard and D'Arnuad had way more value than a 40 year old pitcher. You never judge a trade of could happen. Fact is a fair trade with those 2 packaged could / should have got us WAY more than just Dickey.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

The way I see it you judge on current value and Syndergaard and D'Arnuad had way more value than a 40 year old pitcher. You never judge a trade of could happen. Fact is a fair trade with those 2 packaged could / should have got us WAY more than just Dickey.

 

He's not yet 40 and he's only one year removed from a Cy Young. I don't pretend to know how he'll pitch next season like some of you might, but I've already noted that Phil Neikro was a Cy Young contender in his mid 40s. And if he was 40 and it is the end of the line for all starters ( including knuckleballers ???? ), why is Colon constantly mentioned on this forum as a good target, or why were people disappointed we missed out on Hudson ? Not a lot of consistancy of ideas really, just saying.

 

The ceiling for Dickey next year is probably short of Cy Young ( re home park ) but he could approach that again. The floor is probably what we got this year first half.

 

Syndegaard's value went up this year. So his trade value went up too. However, it's not hard to note that nobody really got good trade value for pitching prospects this season so its basically just speculation what you can get. Really good position player prospects seem to have more market value. This might just be a random trend or maybe its teams factoring in the increased frequency of injuries in young pitchers and not wanting to gamble on them big time. Maybe I'm wrong, tell me about the best three hauls teams got for trading young pitching prospects the last two years.

[Boxcar]

He's not yet 40 and he's only one year removed from a Cy Young. I don't pretend to know how he'll pitch next season like some of you might, but I've already noted that Phil Neikro was a Cy Young contender in his mid 40s. And if he was 40 and it is the end of the line for all starters ( including knuckleballers ???? ), why is Colon constantly mentioned on this forum as a good target, or why were people disappointed we missed out on Hudson ? Not a lot of consistancy of ideas really, just saying.

 

The ceiling for Dickey next year is probably short of Cy Young ( re home park ) but he could approach that again. The floor is probably what we got this year first half.

 

Syndegaard's value went up this year. So his trade value went up too. However, it's not hard to note that nobody really got good trade value for pitching prospects this season so its basically just speculation what you can get. Really good position player prospects seem to have more market value. This might just be a random trend or maybe its teams factoring in the increased frequency of injuries in young pitchers and not wanting to gamble on them big time. Maybe I'm wrong, tell me about the best three hauls teams got for trading young pitching prospects the last two years.

 

Don't think we'd like giving up d'Arnaud and Syndergaard for Colon.

[TRM]

Don't think we'd like giving up d'Arnaud and Syndergaard for Colon.

 

I'd do it mostly just because I think it would probably make Wilko's life complete

[reedjohnsonfan]

Should have specified over a full season. Take his 3.80 projection as an average. It is then just as likely that he'll have a 1.40 ERA as a 6.20 ERA.

 

That makes no sense and I'm sure you'd agree.

 

Johnson was garbage when he was here, sure he's better than a 6.20 ERA pitcher and could do alright in San Diego, but 8 million is an overpayment if you ask me. On the wrong side of 30, made of glass, declining fastball, coming off a terrible year. It could workout for the Padres, but 8 mil is a lot of $$ for a small budget team. Terrible signing IMO.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

That makes no sense and I'm sure you'd agree.

 

Johnson was garbage when he was here, sure he's better than a 6.20 ERA pitcher and could do alright in San Diego, but 8 million is an overpayment if you ask me. On the wrong side of 30, made of glass, declining fastball, coming off a terrible year. It could workout for the Padres, but 8 mil is a lot of $$ for a small budget team. Terrible signing IMO.

 

Glad to see someone else go against the grain here and think that Johnson is no bargain at $8M. Reminds me of when we got Melky Cabrera, sure he might have worked out, but $16M for two seasons was a huge risk and sure enough Melky was a bad risk for the Jays. Mike Richards on TSN today was questioning the contracts of Johnson and Ruiz, which I thought was kind of funny because a bunch of guys on here think they are both bargains.

 

The worst thing about these veteran wash outs is they take a key position on the team and managers will go with them long past the point they are ineffective hoping they can improve. GMs also tend to put no emphasis on replacing them either, because they make significant money and no other team wants to take on these projects when they are injured or in the midst of a bad season. Johnson I guess has some potential to pitch well ( 2011 season form, not 2010 season form in opinion ), but a month into the season he'll either be that guy with a constant injury concern built in OR he'll be a complete bust again.

 

Blanton for example this season they just kept trucking him out there hoping for the best. Always numerous pitchers like this every year and often their teams fall out of contention quickly. You get numerous games that are hopeless after 3-4 innings.

[ElNik2013]

At least AA got his guys, meaning guys he's liked for a while like Happ, Rogers, Reyes and let's not forget Bonifacio, the guy we wish Loria had refused to trade.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

This needs to be resaid, just because Johnson is officially gone now.

 

Blue Jays Receive

Emilio Bonifacio (1/2 season, very s*****)

Josh Johnson (16 s***** starts)

John Buck (traded to Mets)

Mark Buehrle ($19 million #4 pitcher, aging)

Jose Reyes (overpaid by a lot, great offensively, poor defensively)

+ $8 million

 

Marlins Receive

Henderson Alvarez

Adeiny Hechavarria

Yunel Escobar

Jake Marisnick

Jeff Mathis

Justin Nicolino

Anthony DeSclafani

 

Blue Jays 1 year later

Jose Reyes

Mark Buehrle

 

lol

This needs to be sent to Rogers so they can see the reality of the complete morons ruining this franchise at the moment.

[ElNik2013]

Let's hope and pray, a lot, that AA has realized that he's been totally bent over in trades starting with the Happ trade.