Can Ryan Goins stick?

[theblujay]

Goins is nowhere near Phillips, just f***ing stop. I agree that Hutch and Sanchez are being under valued. Morrow's a top end rotation if he stays healthy. I believe moving all 3 is way to steep, considering Phillips contract. I'd rather keep one of Sanchez or Hutch, the latter's a number 3 IMO.

 

Phillips' average WAR is right over 3 the last few years. Goins could put up 1-1.5 pretty easily. So thats only around a 2 win upgrade for all that? Hutch himself will probably provide a 2 win upgrade over our 5th starters this year.

[theblujay]

Do you live out West?

 

Nope?

 

Do you disagree with what I said?

[theblujay]

About Goins, yes. About the value of those pitchers for Phillips, no.

 

You do not think Goins could put up 1-1.5 WAR in a full season?

[GD]

So Goins put up 0.4 WAR in 30 games. Phillips had 2.7 WAR this year. Extrapolate Goins for a full season and he's not that far from Phillips. Of course we can't be sure what to expect from Goins, could be better, could be worse.

 

You guys are severely underrating Morrow and Hutch.

 

Lmfao oh my god

 

Did he just extrapolate a whole 121 PA sample

 

And no you don't get nearly the same, you'd get about ~1.9 when you extrapolate him to 600 PA and that's nearly a full win less, which doesn't matter cause you don't extrapolate 121 PA samples

[Angrioter]

So Goins put up 0.4 WAR in 30 games. Phillips had 2.7 WAR this year. Extrapolate Goins for a full season and he's not that far from Phillips. Of course we can't be sure what to expect from Goins, could be better, could be worse.

 

You guys are severely underrating Morrow and Hutch.

 

Lmfao oh my god

 

#ArencibiaLine debut

4-5, 2 dingers = 300 dingers (150 games)

[Angrioter]

You do not think Goins could put up 1-1.5 WAR in a full season?

 

He'd have to be pretty f***ing good,lol.

 

He's not Brendan "can catch every single damn ball" Ryan

[Abomination]

Did he just extrapolate a whole 121 PA sample

 

And no you don't get nearly the same, you'd get about ~1.9 when you extrapolate him to 600 PA and that's nearly a full win less, which doesn't matter cause you don't extrapolate 121 PA samples

 

In fairness, basically all of that value came from the glove, not the bat.

[theblujay]

Today I learned that Brandon Phillips is barely better than Ryan Goins.

 

I said Phillips isn't that much of an upgrade compared to Goins, considering what we would have to give up (players + money)

[theblujay]

Did he just extrapolate a whole 121 PA sample

 

And no you don't get nearly the same, you'd get about ~1.9 when you extrapolate him to 600 PA and that's nearly a full win less, which doesn't matter cause you don't extrapolate 121 PA samples

 

If anything I think his true numbers would be higher than they are now, so yeah I extrapolated.

[theblujay]

Lmfao oh my god

 

Lmfao oh my god

[theblujay]

He'd have to be pretty f***ing good,lol.

 

Which he is on D

[GD]

In fairness, basically all of that value came from the glove, not the bat.

 

And the glove needs even more time to stabilize than the bat which means he could be even worse.

 

Today I learned that Brandon Phillips is barely better than Ryan Goins.

 

The more you know.

 

If anything I think his true numbers would be higher than they are now, so yeah I extrapolated.

 

omg

[Angrioter]

In fairness, basically all of that value came from the glove, not the bat.

 

Bat and glove are the same s***. The slumps are offensive and defensive.

 

Cano

2012 = +12,6

2013 = +2,5

 

Martin

2012 = +6.6

2013 = +22.7

[GD]

Bat and glove are the same s***. The slumps are offensive and defensive.

 

oh Ang

[Angrioter]

In fairness, basically all of that value came from the glove, not the bat.

 

oh Ang

 

The point is.................

The good defenders have negative defensive period. An average/mediocre defender something looks like a gold glove caliber defender for a period of time.

[theblujay]

And the glove needs even more time to stabilize than the bat which means he could be even worse.

 

 

 

The more you know.

 

 

 

omg

 

The fact you wanted to make that trade is 10% worse than me saying Goins can put up 1 WAR

[gruber92]

Are there people here that would seriously trade Morrow ,Sanchez and Hutchinson for Phillips?

 

GTFO

[KingKat]

It's weird. Most people, myself included, on this forum don't believe the Jays have any business going forward with the plan to compete next year. The best thing for this team is pretty obviously clearing the FO and starting from scratch. And yet here we are debating the merits of moving pieces like Sanchez and Hutch for Brandon Phillips.

 

I don't agree with this. Going all in is dumb but if you're going to do it you might as well go full derp. After the Dickey trade, I was advocating trading Sanchez because if you're going to trade your future to win now, you might as well trade all your future and do everything you can to win now. Part of the frustration with last year was not only all the trades but also the fact that even after all that the team felt unfinished. Going half way accomplishes nothing. No point holding back bullets just so you can have some good players but probably not enough good players in the future. The only thing that will ease the pain of those bad trades is a playoff run before it all falls apart. I say full derp for 2014!

[Boxcar]

So Goins put up 0.4 WAR in 30 games. Phillips had 2.7 WAR this year. Extrapolate Goins for a full season and he's not that far from Phillips. Of course we can't be sure what to expect from Goins, could be better, could be worse.

 

You guys are severely underrating Morrow and Hutch.

 

You lying idiot, your quote is right f***ing here that you think Phillips is barely better than Goins. Are you kidding me? You even go on to say that you think he's even better then that tiny speck of a sample you extrapolated to a full season.

 

My god, you are so obviously only a Jays fan. No concept of player value. If they play for the Jays, they are worth twice as much! For the record, I wouldn't do BTS' deal because selling low on two assets in the same trade is dumn. I'd be gunning for Dustin Ackley, who is currently playing any position that's vacant for the Mariners and Phillips is on the decline. Just me, though. Also, el-oh-f***ing-el that you think Goins can put up a 1.5 WAR year with no problem.

 

Thanks for continuing to derp about in various threads. You are the poster equivalent to a Magikarp.

[Frenchsoup]

I like this phillips idea, I wouldn't be selling our young almost ready arms though. I'd be selling high on a colby rasmus who's about to get expensive and with them looseing choo is a piece they'd definately be interested in. You could throw in a BP arm in there as well.

[G-Snarls]

I like this phillips idea, I wouldn't be selling our young almost ready arms though. I'd be selling high on a colby rasmus who's about to get expensive and with them looseing choo is a piece they'd definately be interested in. You could throw in a BP arm in there as well.

 

Agree

 

Sure I'd like to have Phillips, but I'm not trading young starting pitching to get him

[GD]

I'd be gunning for Dustin Ackley, who is currently playing any position that's vacant for the Mariners and Phillips is on the decline.

 

I don't think they're eager to trade Ackley. He's put up like a .357 wOBA and 126 wRC+ since the second half and I don't think the Mariners will trade him 'cause of that.

 

Drew/Ramirez/Infante are still my preferred options.

[Angrioter]

I don't think they're eager to trade Ackley. He's put up like a .357 wOBA and 126 wRC+ since the second half and I don't think the Mariners will trade him 'cause of that.

 

Drew/Ramirez/Infante are still my preferred options.

 

 

Negative track record?

.245/.315/.354, wRC+ 89

 

Saber guy?

Eric Wedge “It’s the new generation. It’s all this sabermetrics stuff, for lack of a better term, you know what I mean?” Wedge said. “People who haven’t played since they were 9 years old think they have it figured out. It gets in these kids’ heads.”

 

Mariners INF: Miller, Franklin, Seager, Smoak

 

Ackley doesn't have the profile to be a corner outfielder. In the CF the Mariners have Guty and Saunders. He's a trade bait.

[Frenchsoup]

I don't think they're eager to trade Ackley. He's put up like a .357 wOBA and 126 wRC+ since the second half and I don't think the Mariners will trade him 'cause of that.

 

Drew/Ramirez/Infante are still my preferred options.

 

 

Drew's a little to injury prone for me, Infante will be expensive and might cost compensation(not a big deal for us), i like the idea of Ramirez but how much will he cost?

[GD]

Ackley doesn't have the profile to be a corner outfielder. In the CF the Mariners have Guty and Saunders. He's a trade bait.

 

Guti is gone and Saunders can play a corner

 

Drew's a little to injury prone for me, Infante will be expensive and might cost compensation(not a big deal for us), i like the idea of Ramirez but how much will he cost?

 

Drew's stayed healthy this year I think. Idk how much Ramirez will cost that's key. Infante's price tag shouldn't be an issue (wasn't he crowdsourced for like 3/25?) and comp obviously isn't an issue (tank nation bitches!).

[Angrioter]

Ackley, Iwakuma and Zunino for Bautista and Melky?

[SAAviour]

I like this phillips idea, I wouldn't be selling our young almost ready arms though. I'd be selling high on a colby rasmus who's about to get expensive and with them looseing choo is a piece they'd definately be interested in. You could throw in a BP arm in there as well.

 

I'm with frenchsoup, would Cincinnati do that trade?

 

Morrow, Sanchez, and hutch is absolutely f***ing retarded, sorry. And I think morrow is a 15 game starter.

[theblujay]

 

Morrow, Sanchez, and hutch is absolutely f***ing retarded, sorry. And I think morrow is a 15 game starter.

 

Thank you for bringing some clarity to this thread

[Laika]

LOL @ trading that stuff for Brandon Phillips' age 33-36 seasons.

 

Although, it's so silly that I could actually see AA doing it. I could totally see AA selling low on Morrow, for one thing.

[GD]

but this is exactly the type of deal(s) I'm expecting to go down.

 

I'm more expecting him to sign Bartolo Colon for 3 years 35 million because ERA.