Can Ryan Goins stick?

[Boxcar]

Ok let's say the FO goes completely insane and overreacts and puts Goins at 2B to fail next year. Lets say he's completely replacement level, 0 WAR. That a 2-3 win upgrade over this year with no money spent. And that's worst case scenario.

 

Lmfao @ this reasoning. So instead of the #7 or 8 pick, we can get a #10 or #11 pick!!! Woo hoo!

 

"Hey, don't worry about getting, you know, a good second baseman because at least if he's 0 WAR it will be an improvement over last year. Playoffs baby!"

[DuckDuckGose]

"I really don't get why you think Goins is some defensive whiz. His D definitely looked like it played at the MLB level but he hasn't been Johnny Mac or even Aaron Hill out there.

 

Kawasaki will never be a great hitter, neither will Goins. Let's assume the bats are somewhat even. I have confidence in Kawasaki's ability to put up good at bats, do the little things right and he's hilarious to watch."

 

I stopped reading right there. If you think that Kawasaki has a better fundamental base to his game,then you don't know much. I'm not trying to sound insulting but,for starters Kawasaki has a noodle arm and short arms his throws.

 

His arm is a below average tool, fine at 2B less so at SS. Fundamentally Goins isn't close to Kawasaki. I'm really not sure what games you've been watching or perhaps you just have a very short term memory. It would explain the Goins fetish...

[Boxcar]

lmfao

 

Bloody amazing lol

 

80% sure this guy is DJBluRay

[havok24]

Lmfao @ this reasoning. So instead of the #7 or 8 pick, we can get a #10 or #11 pick!!! Woo hoo!

 

"Hey, don't worry about getting, you know, a good second baseman because at least if he's 0 WAR it will be an improvement over last year. Playoffs baby!"

 

lol

[DuckDuckGose]

Lmfao @ this reasoning. So instead of the #7 or 8 pick, we can get a #10 or #11 pick!!! Woo hoo!

 

"Hey, don't worry about getting, you know, a good second baseman because at least if he's 0 WAR it will be an improvement over last year. Playoffs baby!"

 

A 2 WAR catcher and 2B would be an easy 6 win improvement this season. Easiest place to upgrade and I imagine the first holes AA works to fill. At least I hope so.

[theblujay]

Lmfao @ this reasoning. So instead of the #7 or 8 pick, we can get a #10 or #11 pick!!! Woo hoo!

 

"Hey, don't worry about getting, you know, a good second baseman because at least if he's 0 WAR it will be an improvement over last year. Playoffs baby!"

 

I can't believe you're this dumb. I've said it probably 5 times: That's worst case scenario. and for worst case scenario its not that bad.

[gruber92]

 

You don't need to have a strong arm to play 2B

 

Bro with a statement like that,you should stop adding to the argument. WTF?

[Boxcar]

Really? Like the way the Rays' organization assessed Loney?

 

Not sure what your point is, Loney is likely a 3 WAR player this season for 2 million. That's terrific value and one of the biggest reasons why the Rays are always so successful. Each Loney type signing is critical to an org like Tampa.

 

But nice job with that retort. You really showed everyone.

[theblujay]

Bloody amazing lol

 

80% sure this guy is DJBluRay

 

You really don't get it do you? I haven't watched a full game in a month, but I've seen some of Goins ABs. Is that so hard to understand?

[gruber92]

 

His arm is a below average tool, fine at 2B less so at SS. Fundamentally Goins isn't close to Kawasaki. I'm really not sure what games you've been watching or perhaps you just have a very short term memory. It would explain the Goins fetish...

 

This is getting f***ing hilarious,although you are entitled to your opinion.

 

"Fundamentally Goins isn't close to Kawasaki." Holy s***.

[gruber92]

Not sure what your point is, Loney is likely a 3 WAR player this season for 2 million. That's terrific value and one of the biggest reasons why the Rays are always so successful. Each Loney type signing is critical to an org like Tampa.

 

But nice job with that retort. You really showed everyone.

 

Lol.. Gotta love the way you spin things.

[theblujay]

 

This is getting f***ing hilarious,although you are entitled to your opinion.

 

"Fundamentally Goins isn't close to Kawasaki." Holy s***.

Their minds are made up, there's no use trying.

[GD]

You're underestimating how devastating it is to get 0 WAR from a position.

 

This is assuming Goins puts up 0 WAR. It's very possible he could do worse.

[GD]

Their minds are made up, there's no use trying.

 

A little bit of the pot calling the kettle black here lmao.

[theblujay]

You're underestimating how devastating it is to get 0 WAR from a position.

 

Considering we got less than 0 WAR from 4 positions this year and still had a good offensive team I would say we can handle 0 WAR from our 2B as absolute worst case scenario.

[theblujay]

A little bit of the pot calling the kettle black here lmao.

 

As I've said my main point in this thread is that you guys are writing off Goins too soon. That would make me open minded by giving him a chance. Pretty much the opposite.

[theblujay]

That's pathetic on your part that you would accept 0 war from any position

 

When did I say I would accept it. I said worst case scenario that's what we get.

[Laika]

lmfao @ Ryan Goins having a replacement level floor

[theblujay]

lol

 

Yeah, we really absorbed our crippling lack of talent and depth well this season. Clearly this team is deep enough that getting replacement-level production from 2B is no biggie.

 

I think you'd agree that pitching was our problem this year. 11th in your precious wRC+ with 4 below replacement level positions.

[gruber92]

 

Not sure what I said wrong.... Kawasaki would not be able to 3B because he has a noodle arm. But he can play 2B, therefore he doesn't need a strong arm to play 2B.

 

Perfect example was from today's game ending DP turned by Goins. Kawasaki doesn't turn that DP and the game continues. On the outfield relay throw that cut down the runner at home or the last play of the game going deep into the right field hole and throwing out the runner at first to secure a 3-2 win vs the Royals.In the little amount of playing time he has had so far,there are already three prime examples as to why he is a better option than Kawasaki or Izturis. Neither of the two make those plays. Agreed?

[Boxcar]

Considering we got less than 0 WAR from 4 positions this year and still had a good offensive team I would say we can handle 0 WAR from our 2B as absolute worst case scenario.

 

Are you aware that this team is close to losing 90 games?

[DuckDuckGose]

Their minds are made up, there's no use trying.

 

How is my mind made up? I'm watching the games and I really don't see how you can say Goins after all of 9 games has better fundamentals than Kawasaki. Seriously what games have you guys been watching? What has Goins done to pass Kawasaki on the depth chart or be guaranteed a spot on next year's roster? There is a difference between having an opinion and needing evidence to support the contrary to change it and "my mind being set".

[Laika]

He's a top-tier defender. You haven't heard?

 

Top percent defender, can hit for AVG, doesn't strike out much, consistently underrated coming up...

 

He's Dustin Pedroia, version 2.Goins

[DuckDuckGose]

That's pathetic on your part that you would accept 0 war from any position

 

By definition a replacement level player isn't a MLB player. Having a AAA player as a starter is a pretty terrible worst case scenario. To fan the flames it's a pretty high probability outcome as well. But let's put all our eggs in the Goins basket because he's looked like a 2 WAR player after 9 games.

[havok24]

Holy s***, this has to be the funniest thread on the internet.

[Laika]

23rd in Pitching WAR.

23rd in Position Player WAR.

 

lol, where do we get these guys?

[DuckDuckGose]

 

Perfect example was from today's game ending DP turned by Goins. Kawasaki doesn't turn that DP and the game continues. On the outfield relay throw that cut down the runner at home or the last play of the game going deep into the right field hole and throwing out the runner at first to secure a 3-2 win vs the Royals.In the little amount of playing time he has had so far,there are already three prime examples as to why he is a better option than Kawasaki or Izturis. Neither of the two make those plays. Agreed?

 

Wow, he's made two above average plays. He's great! It's nice that he was given a chance to showcase his plus arm at 2B but it's seriously the least important tool for the position. If your big point for Goins next season is his arm you should re-examine the way you evaluate 2B defense and it's worth.

[gruber92]

 

Don't know, was on vacation and missed those plays. And I didn't see the one this afternoon

 

Then how can you say what you are saying?

[havok24]

As I've said my main point in this thread is that you guys are writing off Goins too soon. That would make me open minded by giving him a chance. Pretty much the opposite.

 

lol for f*** sakes, we're talking about Ryan f***ing Goins not Brett Lawrie.

[DuckDuckGose]

Thames situation all over again

 

I really don't get the logic. Put him in AAA and on the 40-man. If injuries come up and he's playing well use an option year and give him another look. Keep doing that until he plays his way on to the team or you find a better option. He isn't the type of player you plan around but he's good to have in the org.