Can Ryan Goins stick?

[theblujay]

Like they saw something in Thames? Like they see something in JPA? This organization has absolutely no idea what they're doing and their endorsement couldn't be more meaningless.

 

There are also players that they saw something in and it turned out they were right. Of course I'm gonna get called out for comparing Goins to Bautista. AA's master plan isn't to trick all the casuals and rub in in the faces of the SABR guys by putting Goins as the starting 2B.

[theblujay]

24 f***ing pages for Ryan Goins, you guys.

 

We got plenty left. We can get 30, maybe 40.

[theblujay]

I think he's most likely a solid bench player who can fill in around the infield with good D. But I don't rule out the possibility that he's a solid starting 2B if he can hit a little bit.

 

If he can hit a little below average then I think he'll be a solid 2B. That hope is based on a few things.

1: From what I've seen of the games he's played he has a solid approach and isn't flailing at pitches like some other young guys (Pillar, Gose).

2: I'd give any player room to improve and make adjustments and to get better. Especially one who's only 25.

3: What's wrong with having a little positive attitude and little belief in something?

[Smokey]

Like they saw something in Thames? Like they see something in JPA? This organization has absolutely no idea what they're doing and their endorsement couldn't be more meaningless.

 

It's not that complicated bro... "this org is bad" but if they're handing the starting 2B position to Goings based on a limited sample size, then I completely trust their decision because Goings =/ Thames. Quite simple really.

[Smokey]

if he can hit a little below average then i think he'll be a solid 2b. That hope is based on a few things.

1: from what i've seen of the games he's played he has a solid approach and isn't flailing at pitches like some other young guys (pillar, gose).

 

i haven't watched a game in a month so i don't know...

 

lmfao

[theblujay]

Because he's going to fail and we are going to have a blackhole at 2B.

 

If Goins is a blackhole than what is what we got this year?

[theblujay]

lmfao

 

So I haven't watched a whole game in a month? I've been watching Goins and Gose's ABs for the last few days.

[theblujay]

lmfao

 

Do you have anything to say or are you just gonna keep trying to attack me?

[theblujay]

A blackhole?

 

So we got a nice -2.6 WAR from Izturis and Boni this year. I think Goins can put up 0 WAR without any improvement at all with the bat.

[theblujay]

JPR's front office saw something in Bautista and Encarnacion. AA's waived Edwin and merely retained a productive bench player in Bautista.

 

Lawrie? You can almost count Rasmus and Escobar who coming off bad years.

 

He's also made good decision (and bad ones) getting rid of people. Molina, Wallace, Taylor just to name a few.

[theblujay]

You are pulling Goins 0 war out of your ass

 

Tell me why he couldn't put up 0 WAR?

[theblujay]

If he was a below average AAA player, how could anyone think he could be average in the MLB? Mind blowing stupidity

 

When did I say he would be an average batter?

[theblujay]

This couldn't be more irrelevant. We're not restricted to players currently in the org.

 

You've missed a bit. I was saying that worst case scenario AA gives Goins the job and we gain 2-3 wins without paying a dime.

[havok24]

Lawrie? You can almost count Rasmus and Escobar who coming off bad years.

 

He's also made good decision (and bad ones) getting rid of people. Molina, Wallace, Taylor just to name a few.

 

And they got rid of a 4.5 WAR shortstop on a sweet contract, because he wrote a bad word on his eye black. This F.O. is useless when it comes to evaluating talent and taking the best measures to add talent efficiently.

[CHRIS]

So we got a nice -2.6 WAR from Izturis and Boni this year. I think Goins can put up 0 WAR without any improvement at all with the bat.

 

Negative value from 2B guys that the org "saw something in"; Boni being the must-have guy in the Marlins deal, and Izturis getting a three year deal.

[flafson]

Of course, because our only choices are a 6-7 war superstar or a replacement level player and nothing in between. More great logic from MR Flufsan.

 

There really isn't much in between, lol.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=1142,2073,1830,1717,589,548,8585,1861,81,1066,2041,950,3269,1591,5248,906,3174,1572,2434,3708,1825,1392,4251,1443,4727,4191,4166,4792,88,818,520,4747,3255,6141,1573,144,1945,432,918,607,1609,470,656,826,2234,1702,332,242,1930,2161,8027,4556,4810,395,3190,25,8610,4885,1737,3035,6035,3057,3179,1556,1766,1638,1617,2129,3231,934,8252,1738,443,746,1176,1429,1824,7619,166,2579,6073,5557,1417,3704,3469,3867,2197,4606,3707,8259,1135,1488,454,1935,3882,2140,1286

 

See Mr. Smackme, my logic isn't as flawed as you might believe.

Good defense, not bad hitting with good approach and FREE is a lot better than 10mil Izturis and prospects for Bonifacio.

[Smokey]

Do you have anything to say or are you just gonna keep trying to attack me?

 

I honestly don't have much to say to a guy who has more or less formed an opinions on a marginal player without even having watched him play and feels the need to make 100's of posts defending that ill-informed position.

[GD]

We got plenty left. We can get 30, maybe 40.

 

This is a legendary thread. I wonder if it can hit 50.

 

Goings

 

...

 

Goings

 

This is starting to get on my nerves lol

[Smokey]

See Mr. Smackme, my logic isn't as flawed as you might believe.

Good defense, not bad hitting with good approach and FREE is a lot better than 10mil Izturis and prospects for Bonifacio.

 

That's not saying much...

[Smokey]

 

This is starting to get on my nerves lol

 

lol

 

I must subliminally want to see him going so I don't have to read some of the nonsense in this thread.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Smokey

[theblujay]

That's a really, really bad justification for handing a job to a replacement-level player. I also don't buy Izturis as a -20 defender, but that's a different story.

 

That's not my justification. I said worst case scenario that's what happens. That's not very likely at all. But as a worst case backup plan that isn't too bad.

[theblujay]

I honestly don't have much to say to a guy who has more or less formed an opinions on a marginal player without even having watched him play and feels the need to make 100's of posts defending that ill-informed position.

 

This is so ironic because its not me who's formed opinions on him, it's you. I've already said my main point is how you guts are already writing him off when he's barely even played in the majors. My main point is that we shouldn't write him off already.

[theblujay]

Actually replacement-level is the mean projection for Goins.

 

I mean this: AA isn't able to sign/trade for a 2B. Then he decides that Goins showed enough potential that he competes for the job in ST. Goins wins the job and his bats fails. He puts up a season close to replacement level. 2-3 win upgrade for no money and that's the worst case scenario.

[havok24]

This is so ironic because its not me who's formed opinions on him, it's you. I've already said my main point is how you guts are already writing him off when he's barely even played in the majors. My main point is that we shouldn't write him off already.

 

lol what exactly are we writing off? The guy put up a 90 wRC+ at AAA as a 25 year old, and you automatically think he is just going to "discover" something now that he has reached the highest level of pro ball?

 

It's one thing to write Brett Lawrie off when he is going through a slump, but it's another thing to say don't write Ryan Goins off.

[havok24]

I mean this: AA isn't able to sign/trade for a 2B. Then he decides that Goins showed enough potential that he competes for the job in ST. Goins wins the job and his bats fails. He puts up a season close to replacement level. 2-3 win upgrade for no money and that's the worst case scenario.

 

This team has to try and win again next season with the way the current roster is built. Going into next season with Ryan f***ing Goins as your 2B is not an option unless you are okay with punting another season down the gutter.

[theblujay]

lol what exactly are we writing off? The guy put up a 90 wRC+ at AAA as a 25 year old, and you automatically think he is just going to "discover" something now that he has reached the highest level of pro ball?

 

It's one thing to write Brett Lawrie off when he is going through a slump, but it's another thing to say don't write Ryan Goins off.

 

I don't think he's going to discover something, I don't know what he's going to do. Why don't we let him play and see what happens. It's the attitude of trusting wRC+ no matter what without seeing the guy, giving him no chance to surprise or improve and writing him off before even playing a game that bothers me.

[theblujay]

This team has to try and win again next season with the way the current roster is built. Going into next season with Ryan f***ing Goins as your 2B is not an option unless you are okay with punting another season down the gutter.

 

I hope it doesn't come to that, but like I said its not too bad for worst case scenario after what we had this year.

[gruber92]

The old fashioned way of assessing players ends in giving Derek Jeter and 40-something-games-at-first Rafael Palmeiro Gold Gloves.

 

Really? Like the way the Rays' organization assessed Loney?

[GD]

We should have Pillar, Gose, Goins, Stroman, Nolin, Drabek and Hutchison all starting for Buffalo next season.

 

That would actually be pretty sexy depth.

 

Stroman's working on a no no btw.

[gruber92]

How the are these situations different? Thames and Goins are both mediocre non prospects, both are being given a shot at a vacant position and in both cases AA is being fooled by success in a small sample. Actually, Thames probably had more upside than Goins when he came up. People were enamored with Chocolate Thunder, just like with Goins now.

 

Where's Thames? Couldn't even crack the Mariners' 25 man and they don't even care about defense. Goins might be the next Mike McCoy but it will take a miracle for anything more than that.

 

Well we all know the recipe for winning in any sport starts with defense. Goins plays plus defense at a premium position while Thames,well you know.