#PickRicky

[G-Snarls]

Starting a campaign

 

We have no 5th starter. Again.

 

We need to see, at some point, how Romero looks at the big league level. Might as well do that now. The games are meaningless. His AAA performances have been a mixed bag.

 

If he looks good that's nice to know and be can go in to the off season with some confidence he could really use

 

If he sucks then we know, it won't hurt us next year, and he helps the tank process

 

All in favour? Opposed?

Edited August 26, 2013 by G-Snarls

[Dr. Dinger]

I'm all in favour of tanking at this point, so why not?

[G-Snarls]

http://mlbmemes.com/wp-content/plugins/iammobiled-mobile/optimize-image.php?maxsize=430&source=http://mlbmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/386032_506946926006096_2121476633_n.jpg

[eastcoastjaysfan]

K's have been up and the BB's ahve been down recently.

 

He's still getting smashed though. That ship has sailed.

[Convo]

I'm all in favour of tanking at this point, so why not?

 

Makes sense... I think?

[G-Snarls]

Makes sense... I think?

 

Somehow I don't think Alex A wants them to tank to the bottom 5 like some people on here do

[Convo]

Somehow I don't think Alex A wants them to tank to the bottom 5 like some people on here do

 

Is there any real reason not to?

[G-Snarls]

Is there any real reason not to?

 

To provide *slight* protection to AA's job is the only reason I can think of. So...

[Jimcanuck]

To provide *slight* protection to AA's job is the only reason I can think of. So...

 

He made one very questionable and one ridiculous major trade in the off season. Rogers like any smart org will ask some tough questions in the offseason, and not just AA. And the finger pointing will begin and it will be squarely on AA who in turn will finger the Beest.

 

Time to clean house

[Convo]

Of course. Every loss increases the amount by which AA failed in assembling this team. In this instance, the goals of the GM don't align with the best outcome for the organization. It's in AA's best interest to go on a big run and get close to 80 wins. It's in the organization's best interest to lose 95 games.

 

Idealistically, the organizations best interests be the same [as the GM's]

[GD]

He made one very questionable and one ridiculous major trade in the off season. Rogers like any smart org will ask some tough questions in the offseason, and not just AA. And the finger pointing will begin and it will be squarely on AA who in turn will finger the Beest.

 

Time to clean house

 

We can hope, but I'm not holding my breath.

[leaffie]

AA is not getting fired this off season.

 

Hopefully, the FO is not as fickle as most posters on this board. When he took over and started building the farm from 28th to top 5, he was wonderful. When he unloaded Wells contract, he was unbeatable. When he signed Bautista and Encarnacion to extremely team friendly contracts, everyone raved about him. The Morrow trade, another feather in his cap.

 

Now some, didn't like his off season, where he used the farm system. Fine, but this team was building momentum until all the injuries last year, and this club could not afford to let this slip. Opportunity came along and most didn't mind the Marlins trade. And even posters that hated the thought of losing all those prospects, were excited for the season to begin. Momentum grew, tickets were bought, jerseys flew off the shelves. The Dickey trade was to be the final peg, and that one didn't work out. Partly due to the neck injury to Dickey and partly due to a natural regression when joining the AL east. But the defense was poor, the pitching was bad and we are where we are today.

 

He did exactly what a GM is supposed to do. He attempted to put a better club on the field, than the year before. Most pundits had this team making the playoffs.

 

And if the injuries hadn't happened, with players playing out of position, or not even on the field for half the year. If the pitchers had done their job even halfway, this season would have been a different story.

 

And the same people that are now yelling to fire AA and Beeston, would be the ones cheering.

 

But attendance is up, the money is pouring in. Even with this disaster, the interest is still there. AA will not be fired!!!

[G-Snarls]

Your hashtag is not catching on anytime soon

 

Dammit

[Boxcar]

AA is not getting fired this off season.

 

Hopefully, the FO is not as fickle as most posters on this board. When he took over and started building the farm from 28th to top 5, he was wonderful. When he unloaded Wells contract, he was unbeatable. When he signed Bautista and Encarnacion to extremely team friendly contracts, everyone raved about him. The Morrow trade, another feather in his cap.

 

Now some, didn't like his off season, where he used the farm system. Fine, but this team was building momentum until all the injuries last year, and this club could not afford to let this slip. Opportunity came along and most didn't mind the Marlins trade. And even posters that hated the thought of losing all those prospects, were excited for the season to begin. Momentum grew, tickets were bought, jerseys flew off the shelves. The Dickey trade was to be the final peg, and that one didn't work out. Partly due to the neck injury to Dickey and partly due to a natural regression when joining the AL east. But the defense was poor, the pitching was bad and we are where we are today.

 

He did exactly what a GM is supposed to do. He attempted to put a better club on the field, than the year before. Most pundits had this team making the playoffs.

 

And if the injuries hadn't happened, with players playing out of position, or not even on the field for half the year. If the pitchers had done their job even halfway, this season would have been a different story.

 

And the same people that are now yelling to fire AA and Beeston, would be the ones cheering.

 

But attendance is up, the money is pouring in. Even with this disaster, the interest is still there. AA will not be fired!!!

 

Are you kidding me? I remember the Marlins trade and the OVERWHELMING feeling from most posters (the one's I care to read, anyway) was "Wow, this trade is a TERRIBLE potentially franchise crippling move but I guess we'll at least get to watch a contender this year."

 

No one liked the Dickey trade at all. No one. Everyone calling for AA's head now, has been for almost a year now. The trade didn't change anyone's opinion of AA, he's a bumbling moron who has no idea what he's doing. I always looked at this season as a win-win. The Jays do well, I get to see my home team in the playoffs, they fail miserably, and the FO is one step closer to being out the door.

[GD]

Are you kidding me? I remember the Marlins trade and the OVERWHELMING feeling from most posters (the one's I care to read, anyway) was "Wow, this trade is a TERRIBLE potentially franchise crippling move but I guess we'll at least get to watch a contender this year."

 

I don't think most people were that adamantly against it. I dunno how many good posters liked it, but I dunno how many thought it was that bad.

[Boxcar]

Most hilarious is that the Mets got a lot more value for 38 year old career year gimmick pitcher Dickey than the Jays did for the best pitcher in baseball at the time he was traded.

[leaffie]

Are you kidding me? I remember the Marlins trade and the OVERWHELMING feeling from most posters (the one's I care to read, anyway) was "Wow, this trade is a TERRIBLE potentially franchise crippling move but I guess we'll at least get to watch a contender this year."

 

No one liked the Dickey trade at all. No one. Everyone calling for AA's head now, has been for almost a year now. The trade didn't change anyone's opinion of AA, he's a bumbling moron who has no idea what he's doing. I always looked at this season as a win-win. The Jays do well, I get to see my home team in the playoffs, they fail miserably, and the FO is one step closer to being out the door.

 

The feeling from the posters you AGREE with felt that way . I am not saying that this is right or wrong. But the posters that disagreed were posters that apply a number to ever stat. They have every move calculated out to financial cost, prospect cost, etc. etc. But that is a small portion of the fan base.

 

As indicated by the increase in attendance, TV ratings, cross country interest, and the constant Jays jersey that you see in every ball park they have played in, the majority of fans, do not look at this game as numbers. They don't care what it costs, and they don't care if AA sent prospects off for major league players. They want a team that FINALLY looked like it had a chance. And on paper, that team looked like it had a very good chance, and a lot of baseball experts agreed. This was not just wishful thinking on AA's part.

 

So AA is a bumbling idiot after last off season, but he was very good before that????

[leaffie]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

You just said

"Its funny, looking back we were all most excited about Drabek and then Taylor, and then Wallace after he was acquired. d'Arnaud was always thought of as the 3rd piece in the deal. "

 

So opinions change. It doesn't mean that AA was 100% correct. But he wasn't wrong either. Fans loved JPA, including most on this board, who were hollering for him to be brought up. How dare Cito sit this next Johnny Bench.

 

And if you took a poll and people were honest, there were very few last October that soured on AA.

[Dick_Pole]

I was happy at the idea that the Jays were "going for it", I was less thrilled about the actual content of the trades themselves. I think that's a not-so-subtle difference that can't be overlooked.

[Dick_Pole]

Most of the fans you're talking about soured on AA long before the offseason. Bad decisions had begun to pile up (Napoli, Cordero, JPA, Vizquel, Thames, Lind etc...) that displayed pretty critical deficiencies in evaluation. It bothers me when people act like everyone was happy with management last October.

 

I disagree with Napoli. People look at the deal in isolation when it was clear the purpose of the trade was to dump Wells. Getting anything back for Wells was amazing. I'd be happy with nothing, so even if we think of Francisco and Rivera as worthless assets, the Wells deal in its entirety gets a free pass on Napoli imo.

 

Thames ended up in Delabar which might not have happened without his MLB experience. Thames taking away time from Pittsburgh's fourth OF or Davis is not something I'm crying too hard over. Overall it was an ok decision in my view.

 

Cordero, yes terrible.

 

JPA after this season needs to have his playing time diminish. But prior to this one there was a glimmer of hope he'd improve.

 

A Lind/Davis platoon definitely should have been implemented sooner. Is that AA's fault or Farrell's? Or the fault of lack of depth where Davis and Lind needed to be in the lineup at the same time which falls back on to AA.

[Caper]

If AA would have kept Napoli, EE would not be in the team right now.

[over500]

If AA would have kept Napoli, EE would not be in the team right now.

AA fanboys use ridiculous hindsight card on Dickey trade, and yet use even dumber hindsight to defend him. A dumbass trade is still a dumbass trade.

[CHRIS]

I don't think most people were that adamantly against it. I dunno how many good posters liked it, but I dunno how many thought it was that bad.

 

I feel like the Marlins deal was risky, the Dickey deal was reckless, and both moves were ill-timed. If you have to replace 4/5 of your rotation to be "all-in", maybe you shouldn't be "all-in".

 

To be fair though, I was excited coming into this season, but that was under the assumption that all of Dickey, Johnson, Boni, Izturis, Cabrera wouldn't be terrible.

[CHRIS]

Thames ended up in Delabar which might not have happened without his MLB experience. Thames taking away time from Pittsburgh's fourth OF or Davis is not something I'm crying too hard over. Overall it was an ok decision in my view.

 

The result that is Delabar is a lot better than the process that yielded him. I think if your process is good, more often than not you will end up with good results.

 

To me this team is flying by the seat of their pants with no repeatability to how they do business. Just a baffling couple of years that could have worked out better had they been a bit healthier and received more contribution from their track record guys. That said, if your process is going to target guys that have had history of injury and inconsistency, you can't be too surprised when it doesn't work out.

[G-Snarls]

Pretty much everyone worth reading called it a horrible value move potentially resulting in hundreds of millions of lost surplus value. Don't confuse excitement over Rogers opening the wallet with thinking the Marlins trade was a good deal. It was always horribly inefficient and lazy GM work.

 

Bad value yes.

 

But I'd say the majority were legitimately excited about how much better the team was all of a sudden. I count myselves among them and I still say it was a trade worth making.

 

The negatives were the backloaded Reyes and Buerhle contracts and the loss of Escobar's value, but I think we all knew Escobar was leaving no matter what. No one could have predicted how bad of a year Josh Johnson had.

 

Now the Dickey trade? One of the worst in team history.

[CHRIS]

Now the Dickey trade? One of the worst in team history.

 

And not entirely for what we gave up (i.e., d'Arnaud), but what we were left with (JPA).

[G-Snarls]

And not entirely for what we gave up (i.e., d'Arnaud), but what we were left with (JPA).

 

Yeah it's bad in every possible way

[leaffie]

A trade to get a CY pitcher should always be a viable option.

 

I didn't like the Dickey trade at all, but if he had won 18 games this year, this would not have been a dumbass trade.

[Angrioter]

A trade to get a CY pitcher should always be a viable option.

 

I didn't like the Dickey trade at all, but if he had won 18 games this year, this would not have been a dumbass trade.

 

And you're a AA cousin or something......Oh Man, delete this post and make it better.

[Jays]

Most hilarious is that the Mets got a lot more value for 38 year old career year gimmick pitcher Dickey than the Jays did for the best pitcher in baseball at the time he was traded.

 

How did that even happen...