"Toronto is a scouting based organization...one dimensional" - John Farrell

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

To be fair, at least some of that has to be that Boston has a better reputation than Toronto in baseball.

 

Which is sad, considering that since the Jays came into existence in 1977, they've won the same number of championships as Boston. Really just goes to show how this franchise has been ruined by decades of incompetent ownership (Interbrew, Rogers) and management (Beeston, Gord Ash, Ricciardi, and AA).

[Olerud363]

Cherington reminds me a lot of AA. He's being hailed as a genius right now because of one fluke bailout trade but he hasn't done much else worthy of the accolades. The only difference is that he's winning right now with Theo's players.

 

Vict, Drew, Napoli, Gomes, Carp, Ross = 10 WAR.

 

Reyes, Izturus, Boni, Melky, Thole, Blanco, Derosa = -0.6 WAR

 

Boston has gained 11 wins over Toronto through the offseason offensive acquisitions. These are important. Reverse this and Toronto is ahead of Boston and still in it for the second wild card.

 

Lets take 11 wins away from Boston, and give Toronto 10 wins

 

Boston 65-65

Toronto 68-59

 

What are you arguing??

 

1. 11 wins aren't important.

2. WAR is crap.

3. I still love AA. Farrell sucks. Cherington is a fag.

[digiblader]

Exactly. And Cherington has already made several bad trades, trading for Bailey, Hanrahan (who both blew their elbows out), trading Jose Iglesias to Detroit so they could get Jake Peavy, a pitcher with injury history and not part of Boston's long term plans--Bogaerts isn't the defensive whiz Iglesias is--it'll be worse if it helps Detroit get back to the World Series. Boston's been a mediocre team since the Iglesias trade, BTW, playing barely .500 ball. The Matt Thornton trade wasn't very good either--he's been hurt as well and awful.

[TheHurl]

Name me 2 decent prospects the Red Sox have brought to the big leagues in the past 5 years, because I can't think of any

 

2005 draft - Ellsbury, Buchholz, Lowrie (40+ career rWAR)

2006 draft - Bard, Masterson, Reddick (23 career rWAR)

2007 draft - Middlebrooks, Rizzo,

 

2008 and beyond were very down drafts for them to this date. But that's a pretty good 3 year run right there. Since 2005 I'm pretty sure you can add up the Jays draft WAR and it won't total that 2005 for the Sox.

[Angrioter]

Danny Espinosa

.202/.267/.277 over 238 minor league at-bats this season.

 

AA, this guy has tools; he hasn't succeeded in MLB level but has what you like "Tools".

Aaron Sanchez and C for Espinosa and Hardthrower RP

[TheHurl]

In the end I really think that Farrell when talking about "scouting based" it means things like the decision to play JPA and trade TdA. The Jays internal scouting reports have JPA as an adequate defensive catcher with one big tool in power. So why move a popular community figure for someone with similar tools by their rankings. This is where scouting based orgs sometimes (often) fail, they aren't taking everything into consideration...including current numbers and especially what is leading to those numbers. Human nature is that if you believe in a player it's going to take a lot to change that view and vice versa.

[Angrioter]

In the end I really think that Farrell when talking about "scouting based" it means things like the decision to play JPA and trade TdA. The Jays internal scouting reports have JPA as an adequate defensive catcher with one big tool in power. So why move a popular community figure for someone with similar tools by their rankings. This is where scouting based orgs sometimes (often) fail, they aren't taking everything into consideration...including current numbers and especially what is leading to those numbers. Human nature is that if you believe in a player it's going to take a lot to change that view and vice versa.

 

Holly s***.......This isn't going to the right direction. Ruben Amaro found a partner. AA suck

[GeorgiaPeach]

Boston's been a mediocre team since the Iglesias trade

 

Maybe it was due in part to Iglesias hitting like he'll never hit again.

[KingKat]

In the end I really think that Farrell when talking about "scouting based" it means things like the decision to play JPA and trade TdA. The Jays internal scouting reports have JPA as an adequate defensive catcher with one big tool in power. So why move a popular community figure for someone with similar tools by their rankings. This is where scouting based orgs sometimes (often) fail, they aren't taking everything into consideration...including current numbers and especially what is leading to those numbers. Human nature is that if you believe in a player it's going to take a lot to change that view and vice versa.

 

That sounds about right and the organization had some success putting faith in players such as Encarnacion and Bautista who ended up defiying stats based projections so they're not likely to change their "faith in the player" outlook.

[digiblader]

Wrong:

 

Iglesias in Detroit--.302/.343/.365--Tigers are 13-7 in last 20 since the trade and better defensively at SS.

[KingKat]

I was shocked they gave up Iglesias. I know they have Bogaerts but it looks like they may move him over to third base. Getting Peavy was nice but Iglesias played well all year long and is a ridiculous defender.

 

They won't move Bogaerts permanently to 3B. He is definitely penciled in at SS next year and they have Drew there now. The fact that Iglesias has been on a bit of a tear offensively since joining the Tigers doesn't change what he is, a glove first shortstop and someone who is more valuable to the Tigers than he is to the Red Sox. Now maybe Peavy wasn't the best trade target but I don't really see what's so shocking about moving him per say. He's Hechavarria with more hype.

[digiblader]

It's part of the reason I hated the Iglesias trade. Bogaerts is likely going to end up at 3B--Xander's range and defense are dropoffs from Jose Iglesias at SS--and we haven't seen him hit yet, because John Farrell won't play him. After Bogaerts, Boston doesn't have any other SS prospects that are ready, as Deven Marrero, their next SS prospect, is years away and just reached AA.

[digiblader]

There's also the risk Boston does something stupid and trades Bogaerts for veterans, like they did with Hanley Ramirez, even though Boston won a World Series with that trade.

[dineke]

If only that one dimension was good.

[Captain Adama]

I was shocked they gave up Iglesias. I know they have Bogaerts but it looks like they may move him over to third base. Getting Peavy was nice but Iglesias played well all year long and is a ridiculous defender.

 

A lot of recent scouting reports say Bogaerts is adequate enough that he should be able to stick at shortstop for the time being.

[Boxcar]

The Jays suck at developing hitters but, they also don't draft them high very often.

 

And after all these pitchers burn out, they will continue drafting tons of pitching early in the draft because apparently that's what really stupid orgs like to do.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Wrong:

 

Iglesias in Detroit--.302/.343/.365--Tigers are 13-7 in last 20 since the trade and better defensively at SS.

 

And the Tigers were 61-45 before the trade and worse defensively at SS.

[GeorgiaPeach]

You can't deny how much Iglesias meant to the Red Sox. Yes he's probably not a .300 hitter, but his contributions did happen.

 

I'm not denying it in regards to my post. His defence is phenomenal....and his snippet of time in Boston at the plate will be way better than he'll ever put up the rest of his MLB career.

[DuckDuckGose]

n

And after all these pitchers burn out, they will continue drafting tons of pitching early in the draft because apparently that's what really stupid orgs like to do.

 

I'm hoping the Jays sell them off as they head in to FA, like OAK has been doing for a decade now. No real reason to believe that they'll go that route though.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I was shocked they gave up Iglesias. I know they have Bogaerts but it looks like they may move him over to third base. Getting Peavy was nice but Iglesias played well all year long and is a ridiculous defender.

 

Igelsias was coming back to earth with the bat.....kinda like how everyone was all over Didi Gregorious when he came out of the gate ripping and regressed back to what he was in the minors a....minimal power, little speed & little offence......all glove player.

[Angrioter]