"Toronto is a scouting based organization...one dimensional" - John Farrell

[Olerud363]

International free agency (the Puigs and Chapmans, and even the Barretos and Jimenezes) and decent FA's while building the farm is the way to go imo. No stupid buys.

 

It's so ironic. When you look at all the guys that have been available in the AA era Cespedes, Chapman, Darvish, Chen, Solar? (cubs guy), Puig, Ryu, Chen... It is an era where you have all these guys coming from different environments and one would think that the largest scouting team in baseball would have an advantage in this...

[digiblader]

International players won't be available for teams to sign for just money if Bud Selig gets his international draft he wants. So you can count that out.

 

Boston's 2nd tier players they signed are not the reason the Red Sox are competing-- it's more due to David Ortiz, Dustin Pedroia, and Jacoby Ellsbury being healthy, and Nava surprising everyone. This is still basically the same team as last year..when it was 100% healthy before their swoon when David Ortiz got hurt.

 

Boston is going to face a real test when Ellsbury, Napoli and Drew leave via free agency this offseason..remember, Boston blew a ton of money taking on Peavy's contract, not to mention they bullpen help, a 1B, a LF and a SS, depending on Bogaerts' development.

[digiblader]

Boston's farm system is in the top 10--but it's not close to the best farm system:

 

9) Boston Red Sox (11): Very solid farm system. Strengths: Bogaerts can/will be an All-Star, and Bradley should be a strong regular. Good depth in Grade B-/C+ types. System could jump several spots next year if low-level sleepers (Cody Kukuk, Jose Vinicio for example) take a step forward. Weaknesses: some of the tools guys and livelier arms haven't developed as hoped.

 

Vinicio significantly regressed, as has Cody Kukuk. Jackie Bradley will only help if Ellsbury leaves via free agency(questionable), Xander Bogaerts is too early to call.

[digiblader]

And regarding the Jays:

 

22) Toronto Blue Jays (1): Another system gutted by recent trades by a team pushing to win in 2013. Remaining strengths: pitching, with Aaron Sanchez, Roberto Osuna, Marcus Stroman, and underappreciated Sean Nolin a nice quartet at the top and more live arms behind them. Weaknesses: they have a lot of tools guys who haven't shown they can play baseball yet. If they pan out, the Jays will move back up the list quickly.

 

Nolin and Stroman's progress will likely lift our ranking on the 2014 report, as will Aaron Sanchez.

[digiblader]

Just be lucky we're not the Tigers or Angels farm--both ranked 29th and 30th.

[Tuco]

It's so ironic. When you look at all the guys that have been available in the AA era Cespedes, Chapman, Darvish, Chen, Solar? (cubs guy), Puig, Ryu, Chen... It is an era where you have all these guys coming from different environments and one would think that the largest scouting team in baseball would have an advantage in this...

 

This is one of my biggest beefs with AA.

When he first got here he talked about how they would be so much more active in international happenings and then he cant even sign/aquire one of the guys you mentioned.

[digiblader]

Keep in mind most of Boston's current players are from the previous regime. Jury's still out on Middlebrooks--and Boston's prospects were frequently traded when Epstein was there for guys like Adrian Gonzalez--which didn't work out for Boston. And don't get me started on Hanley Ramirez, Justin Masterson, and Josh Reddick. And Cherington hasn't been great either (see Andrew Bailey and Joel Hanrahan)

[Howard Roark]

Missing out on Darvish really hurts even more now, as I believe the Dickey robbery doesn't take place in that case.

[KingKat]

This should be posted on every door in the Jays baseball operations offices. Plastered everywhere on Beeston's office. Maybe someone could hack into Beeston's computer and make this the screen saver.

 

lol at you thinking that Beeston has a computer.

[Olerud363]

International players won't be available for teams to sign for just money if Bud Selig gets his international draft he wants. So you can count that out.

 

Boston's 2nd tier players they signed are not the reason the Red Sox are competing-- it's more due to David Ortiz, Dustin Pedroia, and Jacoby Ellsbury being healthy, and Nava surprising everyone. This is still basically the same team as last year..when it was 100% healthy before their swoon when David Ortiz got hurt.

 

Boston is going to face a real test when Ellsbury, Napoli and Drew leave via free agency this offseason..remember, Boston blew a ton of money taking on Peavy's contract, not to mention they bullpen help, a 1B, a LF and a SS, depending on Bogaerts' development.

 

The difference between the Jays and Sox is largely explained by the acquisitions, not the holdovers.

 

Ped 4.9, Ells 4.9, Ortiz 3.8, Nava 1.7 total = 15.x

Baut 4.0, Ras 3.8, EE 3.6, Lawrie 2.1 total = 14.x

 

Drew, Victorina, Napoli, Gomes, Carp, Ross - ~11WAR

Reyes, Melky, Izturus, Boni, Thole = -0.5 WAR or so

 

On offense the difference between the core holdovers is minimal. There are 10-12 wins difference between the new acquisitions.

[Olerud363]

lol at you thinking that Beeston has a computer.

 

This reminds me of an old Dilbert cartoon where they give the Boss an etcha-sketch instead of a lap top....

[KingKat]

Missing out on Darvish really hurts even more now, as I believe the Dickey robbery doesn't take place in that case.

 

Yeah the Darvish thing is f***ed. If you're an org that doesn't feel confident that you can get free agents to sign even at the highest price doesn't it behoove you to pounce on that exclusive negotiating window? That's a big reason why they were considered the favourites in the first place. I know AA felt there was too much risk to justify the commitment from ownership but the commitments he eventually did get ownership to make were not any wiser.

[DuckDuckGose]

I made a few assumptions for sure. Hutch is still pretty highly-regarded, he could count.

 

Gose is a relative bust IMO, can you see him becoming a good starting player? Carreno and Wojo are possible middle-relief/fifth starter options, I think they can be classified as busts.

 

I can definitely see Gose having a decent MLB career, he's 22 if he was in AA he'd still be a star. Instead he is being exposed at the MLB level. By the time he leaves the game I'm suspecting a couple 3-4 WAR seasons.

 

I always viewed Carreno and Wojo as relievers. I feel now they are playing to expectations, both should make the MLB, and that a lack of upside doesn't mean a lack of lustre IMO. They aren't going to be stars or starters which may have been your criteria though.

[DuckDuckGose]

Who's the last hitter the Jays have drafted/signed, and then had produce at the Major League level for them over multiple seasons (i.e., no Hill or Rios)?

 

Maybe Wells and Delgado, and that was eons ago.

 

The Jays suck at developing hitters but, they also don't draft them high very often.

[digiblader]

Reyes has missed most of the season due to injury. And most of the negative WAR is Izturis's fault.

 

Drew and Napoli are on 1-year deals BTW.. there's no guarantee they'll return to Boston next year.

Victorino's and Drew's WAR looks like an anomaly compared to previous seasons.

[GD]

Reyes has missed most of the season due to injury.

 

You do realize this hurts your case, yes?

[digiblader]

Yanks are in the same boat--they haven't developed an All-Star since Robinson Cano.

[KingKat]

You do realize this hurts your case, yes?

 

As does the one year contract thing. Short commitments are desirable.

[GD]

As does the one year contract thing. Short commitments are desirable.

 

I didn't get that far in his post. Not worth it.

[digiblader]

Which was already spent taking on Jake Peavy's contract--remember? It was a salary dump. Don't forget, their payroll commitments for 2014 don't include arb raises and options on Jon Lester.

[ElNik2013]

I miss high85

[ElNik2013]

One thing I like about Farrell's comments is that the media will have to talk about this and scrutinize the organization.

[GD]

Which was already spent taking on Jake Peavy's contract--remember? It was a salary dump. Don't forget, their payroll commitments for 2014 don't include arb raises and options on Jon Lester.

 

They're the f***ing Boston Red Sox

[ElNik2013]

Syndergaard 2012 - Good prospect (Jays).

Syndergaard 2013 - Elite prospect (Mets).

 

 

Mentiras. Syndergaard was a consensus Blue Jays' top 3 prospect.

[ElNik2013]

Here's John Sickels Top 24 Jays Prospects for 2011.

 

Bolded are guys who still have lustre. Bolded and capitalized are guys who have lustre and are still with the organization. Clearly an absolutely abysmal track record, and yet no signs of them being willing to change approach.

 

1. Drabek

2. LAWRIE

3. McGuire

4. Stewart

5. Wojo

6. Perez

7. SANCHEZ

8. Arencibia

9. D'Arnaud

10. Gose

11. Thames

12. Syndergaard

13. Thon

14. Sweeney

15. Murphy

16. Handsome Jake

17. Jenkins

18. Hech

19. Knect

20. Alvarez

21. Hutch

22. Carreno

23. Farina

24. Nicolino

Also considered: Ahrens, Cardona, Cooper, Dyson, Emaus, Hawkins, Hobson, Jeroloman, Jimenez, Mastro, McDade, Mills, Pierre, Sierra, Taylor, Webb

 

 

I would think you'd need to compare this with the other 29 teams during the same period to convince many here, assuming we put aside our pissedoffness.

[digiblader]

Checking out the top 50 MLB prospects from 2011:

 

BUSTS:

Jesus Montero

Manny Banuelos

Casey Kelly(injury)

Mike Montgomery

Dellin Betances

Christian Frederich

Tyler Matzek

 

Amazingly, only Travis D'Arnaud was in the top 50 Jays prospects.

Still shocked how much of a bust Jesus Montero is--wasn't he supposed to be a huge bat for either the Yanks or Mariners?

[Ehh]

Name me 2 decent prospects the Red Sox have brought to the big leagues in the past 5 years, because I can't think of any

[GD]

Checking out the top 50 MLB prospects from 2011:

 

BUSTS:

Jesus Montero

Manny Banuelos

Casey Kelly(injury)

Mike Montgomery

Dellin Betances

Christian Frederich

Tyler Matzek

 

Amazingly, only Travis D'Arnaud was in the top 50 Jays prospects.

Still shocked how much of a bust Jesus Montero is--wasn't he supposed to be a huge bat for either the Yanks or Mariners?

 

To take you seriously for a sec, I dunno if I'd call Kelly a bust.

 

Name me 2 decent prospects the Red Sox have brought to the big leagues in the past 5 years, because I can't think of any

 

Lars Anderson lmao

[GD]

Doubront looks like a 3 WAR arm, and Iglesias could be an average or better SS. As this question next year and I think Bogaerts will be one of the better young players in the game.

 

Bradley Jr. could be nice. Buchholz is looking great. Ellsbury is home grown, as is Pedroia.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

That's another thing I hate about the article. They pass Cherington off as some sort of baseball genius. Which of their good players did he acquire exactly? The Dodgers trade isn't enough to write a whole resume.

 

Cherington reminds me a lot of AA. He's being hailed as a genius right now because of one fluke bailout trade but he hasn't done much else worthy of the accolades. The only difference is that he's winning right now with Theo's players.