Aaron Loup is awesome.

[Hawkguy]

Just throwing this out there, since he's not one of the first guys people mention. The guy literally came out of nowhere and has become one of the most valuable pieces of our bullpen. I honestly trust him more than just about any guy back there. Sure, he gives up more hits than the average reliever, but he also walks no one. The kid has had a sub 1.00 WHIP in over 80 innings thus far (0.955). He rarely gives up runs and rarely puts forth a bad outing.

 

When you think of the Toronto bullpen, who would you think has pitched the most innings? Answer is Aaron Loup and most people wouldn't guess that.

 

You always hear about Janssen, Delabar, and Cecil. But it's time Loup got some love. Anyone else as thrilled with Loup as I am?

 

http://binaryapi.ap.org/06df09ca5e764aac8d3b447c70681143/512x.jpg

[Angrioter]

No, he isn't.

 

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jesse+Carlson+Toronto+Blue+Jays+Photo+Day+Mhi4fapd83il.jpg

[Arkadium]

Just throwing this out there, since he's not one of the first guys people mention. The guy literally came out of nowhere and has become one of the most valuable pieces of our bullpen. I honestly trust him more than just about any guy back there. Sure, he gives up more hits than the average reliever, but he also walks no one. The kid has had a sub 1.00 WHIP in over 80 innings thus far (0.955). He rarely gives up runs and rarely puts forth a bad outing.

 

When you think of the Toronto bullpen, who would you think has pitched the most innings? Answer is Aaron Loup and most people wouldn't guess that.

 

You always hear about Janssen, Delabar, and Cecil. But it's time Loup got some love. Anyone else as thrilled with Loup as I am?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]280[/ATTACH]

 

Alll true. Well done loup. You deserve some respecto son.

[Hawkguy]

No, he isn't.

Oh, nice! A picture of Jesse Carlson.

 

A guy who never posted a WHIP under 1.00 and burned out after one season!

 

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/30/you_fail.jpg

[BlueJayWay]

What happened to Jesse Carlson?

[John_Havok]

Loup is your typical MLB reliever, failed as a starter in the minors, tweaked his delivery and limiting his repertoire to effective as a reliever in the bigs.

[Hawkguy]

Loup is your typical MLB reliever, failed as a starter in the minors, tweaked his delivery and limiting his repertoire to effective as a reliever in the bigs.

lol what?? I swear some of you just talk out of your ass.

 

He was drafted in 2009 and started a whopping 5 games out of 133 games in the minors. Wow.

[Hawkguy]

Exactly... So he failed as a starter in the minors

Oh right.. it couldn't have been anything like this year where we've moved Rogers into the rotation for spot starts, or anything like that. Nope, couldn't be that, considering he didn't start 1 game in his first year in the minors. And only started a handful in his second year (5 of 33 appearances). Nope. Failed starter. My bad.

[Hawkguy]

I'm not sure why you are being sarcastic like this

Because he's not a failed starter. He started 5 games out of 133 games in the minors. You can't fail in 5 games.

 

However, I mistakenly mistook you for the guy who originally made the claim, my apologies.

 

Also, just some proof from Twitter. From a reporter for the National Post.

John Lott

‏@LottOnBaseball

In a spot start, Aaron Loup (9th round '09) goes 5IP/2H/1R to lower ERA to 2.38 in Lansing's win to split doubleheader.

11:07 PM - 25 May 10

[Atothe]

Who cares about loup, he can just as easily fall off a cliff next year. Guys like loup, cecil, delbar and janssen are good to have but not as important as starters and everyday players. Remember how awesome B.j Ryan was, exactly

[Boxcar]

I choose to remember Jesse Carlson as a top 5 alpha in our bullpen, all time.

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=6668859&c_id=mlb

[DuckDuckGose]

Because he's not a failed starter. He star ed 5 games out of 133 games in the minors. You can't fail in 5 games.

 

However, I mistakenly mistook you for the guy who originally made the claim, my apologies.

 

Also, just some proof from Twitter. From a reporter for the National Post.

 

He was drafted as a starter out of college. Way to jump to conclusions though.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/mobile/?T=Player&ID=23834

[John_Havok]

Because he's not a failed starter. He started 5 games out of 133 games in the minors. You can't fail in 5 games.

 

Yes you can. He did. All relievers are the very definition of failed starters. If they could have succeeded as starters, then they wouldn't be relievers.

[Hawkguy]

He was drafted as a starter out of college. Way to jump to conclusions though.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/mobile/?T=Player&ID=23834

It's not a conclusion. I have no doubt he started before he drafted, in fact, I know he had (he was also used as reliever in college as well).

 

But after being drafted, he never failed as a starter because he was never put there. He started as a reliever, who spot started a few times. Since being drafted, he's 100% been a reliever.

 

If you want to say he's a failed starter, every reliever and closer in the MLB is because 99% of them were starters as kids.

 

Anyway, it's a dumb argument. Doesn't even matter.

 

Shocks me that so many people don't really care for him though. Bullpen's are so underrated.

[DuckDuckGose]

It's not a conclusion. I have no doubt he started before he drafted, in fact, I know he had.

 

But after being drafted, he never failed as a starter because he was never put there. He started as a reliever, who spot started a few times. Since being drafted, he's 100% been a reliever.

 

If you want to say he's a failed starter, every reliever and closer in the MLB is because 99% of them were starters as kids.

 

Anyway, it's a dumb argument. Doesn't even matter.

 

Shocks me that so many people don't really care for him though. Bullpen's are so underrated.

 

Being moved from the rotation to the bullpen is the definition of failing as a starter. He was also a mediocre 22yo starter (old for the level) in Lansing before he was moved to the BP full time.

[John_Havok]

Shocks me that so many people don't really care for him though. Bullpen's are so underrated.

 

I don't think anyone underrated him. He's a good reliever getting great results. Bullpens only matter if you have a good starting staff, they're also very volatile by nature. If anything, I think baseball as a whole still doesn't realize how easy it is to replace good pen arms and build a very good pen on the cheap once you get past the save statistic. There's a few teams that get it, but not many.

[DuckDuckGose]

Being moved from the rotation to the bullpen is the definition of failing as a starter. He was also a mediocre 22yo starter (old for the level) in Lansing before he was moved to the BP full time.

 

Gotta like the guy as a middle relief option though. Solid innings all year from him.

[GD]

If they could have succeeded as starters, then they wouldn't be relievers.

 

Sad Aroldis Chapman is sad

[John_Havok]

Very much so. He's murder on lefties and good enough against righties that he doesn't have to be pigeonholed as a LOOGY.

[John_Havok]

Sad Aroldis Chapman is sad

 

So is Mariano I'm sure

[Orgfiller]

So is Mariano I'm sure

 

Technically Chapman has yet to fail as a starter because the Reds won't do it. He did start in Cuba and when representing Cuba so it maybe it's injury concerns because of the speed and delivery, I really don't know why he just wasn't given a shot from the beginning, or at least after giving him his first taste as a reliever and then converted him back, somewhat like a Sale situation.

[HERPDERP]

Speaking of Carlson, remember this?

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=6668859&c_id=mlb

[fatcowxlive]

Speaking of Carlson, remember this?

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=6668859&c_id=mlb

 

I choose to remember Jesse Carlson as a top 5 alpha in our bullpen, all time.

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=6668859&c_id=mlb

 

Got beat to it Herpderp lol

 

I remember this.... Man Carlson gave Posada that work. No joke

[BlueJayWay]

Because he's not a failed starter. He started 5 games out of 133 games in the minors. You can't fail in 5 games.

Yeah you can. Failed in the sense that he didn't make it as a starter. And that's where almost all MLB relief pitchers come from.

[Hawkguy]

Being moved from the rotation to the bullpen is the definition of failing as a starter. He was also a mediocre 22yo starter (old for the level) in Lansing before he was moved to the BP full time.

Where are you gettnig this information?

 

All of the information I've found and from memory, he was not not a starting pitcher in Lansing, except for spot starts. And from the tweets (John Lott of the National Post has a few), his starts in Lansing were generally pretty great.

 

He also definitely started as a reliever in Lansing. A tweet from Lott proves it.

Nice start for Lansing LH reliever Aaron Loup (9th round '09): 13.2 IP, 9H, 1R, 6BB, 18Ks, 0.66 ERA

.

 

Anyway, like I said it's a dumb argument now. In his post-draft career, he was never a starter, aside from a few spot starts. Pre-draft, I guess you could call him a failed starter because every reliever/closer is (even though some never have the stamina to be good). And he definitely started quite a few games in College.

 

Either way, I just made this thread because I think he's becoming a key part to our bullpen. People shove off bullpen guys like they are nothing, but a good bullpen is very key. If we had the starting pitching we thought we'd have, we'd be very hard to beat with this bullpen.

[GD]

It annoys me that I can't find any data on when Loup started. Nothing from Minor League Central, nothing from Fangraphs.

[John_Havok]

Absolutely. I don't mind him facing some RHB with the bases empty to get to another lefty. But a power bat with runners on is when I get nervous.

 

Not sure why, his FIP and xFIP are both better against RHB than LHB. his K/BB ratio is better against RHB by far. In fact, he's pitched far more often against RHB than LHB and still getting great results, so why would he need to be a LOOGY?

 

.286 wOBA against RHB is pretty good.

[Hawkguy]

What an odd thing to get offended about. If Loup weren't a failed starter he'd be starting.

I'm not really offended - I just value bullpens more than some people I guess. If we can keep Loup on a fairly cheap contract, the guy is going to help us win.

 

Scott Downs was one of my favourite players ever. Guy was so dependable back there.

 

It annoys me that I can't find any data on when Loup started. Nothing from Minor League Central, nothing from Fangraphs.

The only thing you can really find online is a few tweets from Lott (National Post) that I posted where he talked about Loup doing spot starts. One of the tweets said he was spot starting because of a double header.

[torontofan]

It annoys me that I can't find any data on when Loup started. Nothing from Minor League Central, nothing from Fangraphs.

 

It's called Baseball Reference.

 

He started games on April 30; May 5, 10, 25; & June 4, 2010.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=loup--001aar&type=pgl&year=2010

[GD]

It's called Baseball Reference.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=loup--001aar&type=pgl&year=2010

 

Ughh, but now I have to calculate FIP manually. Boo.