Jays in The Pitching Market

[Dick_Pole]

If that's the plan, our list of target teams is reduced to those run by Amaro-level idiots. So the Phillies and... uh... probably nobody else.

 

Ah you guys and Amaro. Come on certainly there's a greater market for Cecil than you think. Just last year an ineffective starter turned lights-out reliever named Lincoln netted the Pirates a failed power hitting OF prospect who's ceiling has been reduced to a Matt Stairs type of career, if he's lucky. That's a pretty decent haul.

[Dick_Pole]

It's Amaro. Common sense goes out the window with him. In a interview, he stated that he wants Utley to retire a Philly..just because. Forgot trying to add a decent B, B- prospect for him even though your team has no shot at winning that division for at least 7 years.

 

Marketing? Protecting the brand by keeping your franchise players? Utley is the Phillies version of Ripken or Jeter so I can completely understand them being reluctant in parting with him. Believe it or not, there's more to it to being a GM than trying to hoard B- prospects at every opportunity. Utley sells a lot more jerseys than some jobber at AA that might give you 5 WAR over his MLB career when he's ready in 2 years. This is nothing more than finding a reason to hate on the guy so you can feel included in the Anti-Amaro club on this board. If Friedman came out and said he wants Longoria to retire in a Rays uniform and is the face of the franchise for the rest of this decade no one would say a peep about it, unless it was something positive.

[Dick_Pole]

I want AA to go after marcum hes got 3.55 fip and 1.3 war and we wouldn't cost much

 

This would be the most realistic trade imo and won't cost much to get done. Should have signed him in the first place but I guess AA still had the working assumption that Romero wasn't the next Dontrelle Willis.

[Dick_Pole]

Jersey sales are shared among all 30 teams.

 

Then I take it back. In fact all clubs should trade their star players around like used needles at a heroin party. Wait a couple of weeks until fans load up on their new star's jerseys, then send them packing to the next team for another top player. $$$$$$.

[TheHurl]

Marketing? Protecting the brand by keeping your franchise players? Utley is the Phillies version of Ripken or Jeter so I can completely understand them being reluctant in parting with him. Believe it or not, there's more to it to being a GM than trying to hoard B- prospects at every opportunity. Utley sells a lot more jerseys than some jobber at AA that might give you 5 WAR over his MLB career when he's ready in 2 years. This is nothing more than finding a reason to hate on the guy so you can feel included in the Anti-Amaro club on this board. If Friedman came out and said he wants Longoria to retire in a Rays uniform and is the face of the franchise for the rest of this decade no one would say a peep about it, unless it was something positive.

 

Making tough PR choices is probably the hardest thing a GM has to do, but bad baseball moves are bad baseball moves. Overpaying someone for their face is only okay if you have no payroll restraints (Yankees and Jeter are a great example) if the Phillies aren't willing to sign Utley, anything other than trading him is a horrible move as you are going to get way more than the 1st round pick in return. Utley is well known to be the meanest SOB in baseball, he's not taking a pay cut cause he's the face of the Phils.

 

I've always thought Amaro was more of a PR GM and in my opinion AA has become that too, he just has managed to avoid a face of the franchise contract running out (i don't count Halladay), hopefully he's better than Amaro

 

As for Longoria, there were plenty of posters who ripped that signing. Personally I think it was a great one partially because TB does need to show some stability.

[TheHurl]

This would be the most realistic trade imo and won't cost much to get done. Should have signed him in the first place but I guess AA still had the working assumption that Romero wasn't the next Dontrelle Willis.

 

AA knew damn well that Romero could be viewed as a 5th starter at best. He was arrogant enough to the think that Happ was enough depth.

[Dick_Pole]

AA knew damn well that Romero could be viewed as a 5th starter at best. He was arrogant enough to the think that Happ was enough depth.

 

I think it's more ignorance with Morrow more than anything. The man's been on the DL every year he's been here. No reason to think any different and Marcum would have been a great stand-by (assuming he'd sign knowing he's 6-7 on the depth chart with a great shot at #5 by May). I think they were well prepared to have Happ take over for Romero if necessary and I would have been fine with that. Just getting beaned in the head wasn't in the plans. AA needs to thank his lucky stars that Rogers has worked out so far and Kawasaki is so damn popular and somewhat useful because that Aviles for Rogers trade just went from confusing and pointless to one of the smarter things he's done lately.

[Dick_Pole]

Making tough PR choices is probably the hardest thing a GM has to do, but bad baseball moves are bad baseball moves. Overpaying someone for their face is only okay if you have no payroll restraints (Yankees and Jeter are a great example) if the Phillies aren't willing to sign Utley, anything other than trading him is a horrible move as you are going to get way more than the 1st round pick in return. Utley is well known to be the meanest SOB in baseball, he's not taking a pay cut cause he's the face of the Phils.

 

I've always thought Amaro was more of a PR GM and in my opinion AA has become that too, he just has managed to avoid a face of the franchise contract running out (i don't count Halladay), hopefully he's better than Amaro

 

As for Longoria, there were plenty of posters who ripped that signing. Personally I think it was a great one partially because TB does need to show some stability.

 

Nothing wrong with being a PR GM imo as long as your market can support it. Toronto and Philly are mid-to-large markets and having guys like Utley, Dickey, Lee and Reyes around to keep the iron hot and the casual fans interested might take precedence over good long-term baseball decisions. The casual fans are ultimately the ones who pay the bills. The hardcores who might know otherwise are mostly going to be around no matter what. It wasn't that long ago in the Pre-Rogers days where the Jays were mentioned in the same breath as the Expos by US commentators as targets for contraction/relocation to bring all 30/28 teams back to one country. That's definitely not the case anymore. As long as the Jays (and for that matter the Phillies) can keep interest up, they can keep a high payroll and with a high payroll comes a significantly higher margin for error when putting a competitive team together compared to the A's or Rays.

 

I believe Lawrie will be his first true test in that regards to a "franchise player" contract.

[TheHurl]

I think it's more ignorance with Morrow more than anything. The man's been on the DL every year he's been here. No reason to think any different and Marcum would have been a great stand-by (assuming he'd sign knowing he's 6-7 on the depth chart with a great shot at #5 by May). I think they were well prepared to have Happ take over for Romero if necessary and I would have been fine with that. Just getting beaned in the head wasn't in the plans. AA needs to thank his lucky stars that Rogers has worked out so far and Kawasaki is so damn popular and somewhat useful because that Aviles for Rogers trade just went from confusing and pointless to one of the smarter things he's done lately.

 

Can one rip Morrow's injury history and suggest Marcum all in the same sentence that must be some kind of a violation??? Marcum has been injured for 395 days since 2009 including missing 35 days this year and has an MRI for his back scheduled for this week.

[Dick_Pole]

Can one rip Morrow's injury history and suggest Marcum all in the same sentence that must be some kind of a violation??? Marcum has been injured for 395 days since 2009 including missing 35 days this year and has an MRI for his back scheduled for this week.

 

I think that only counts as a violation when you expect both of them to be in your starting 5. If you have Marcum in the pen as a stand-by that significantly reduces the chance he gets injured then when Morrow goes down you hope he stays healthy long enough to fill-in effectively.

 

Unless you're Laffey level of suck, you'll be hard pressed to accept being the #7 guy if you have a history of performing decently and relatively injury-free as a #5 starter for most of your life. Unless AA cut ties with Romero early in the spring, the average MLB starter would see:

 

Dickey

Johnson

Buehlre

Morrow

Romero

Happ

 

ahead of him on the depth chart and would admittedly feel doubtful about his chances of getting regular starts. That leaves guys who are good but injury prone like Marcum or also-rans like Laffey who are just looking for an MLB contract as your most realistic choices and I think most would prefer Marcum.

[o2cui2i]

AA knew damn well that Romero could be viewed as a 5th starter at best. He was arrogant enough to the think that Happ was enough depth.

 

can the people giving AA bad information be put in front of a firing squad?

[G-Snarls]

@Buster_ESPN: A dream scenario has developed for the Cubs: Matt Garza is now far and away the best starter available, and he's throwing great: 30 IP, 3 ER

[G-Snarls]

@Buster_ESPN: A dream scenario has developed for the Cubs: Matt Garza is now far and away the best starter available, and he's throwing great: 30 IP, 3 ER

 

How badly does it suck that Josh Johnson is in the exact OPPOSITE situation? Wish we could deal him but his trade value couldn't be lower right now. Dammit.

[Angrioter]

How badly does it suck that Josh Johnson is in the exact OPPOSITE situation? Wish we could deal him but his trade value couldn't be lower right now. Dammit.

 

..........and now Garza is more valuable than JJ.

 

LOV THIS GAMES

[flafson]

No idea what we're going to do with JJ to be honest. Not sure we can give him a contract, not sure anyone will want him now so the only thing left is giving him a qualified offer and hopefully he doesn't take it and we get a draft pick.

I guess we can also give him a short term contract and hope for the best.

[G-Snarls]

No idea what we're going to do with JJ to be honest. Not sure we can give him a contract, not sure anyone will want him now so the only thing left is giving him a qualified offer and hopefully he doesn't take it and we get a draft pick.

I guess we can also give him a short term contract and hope for the best.

 

I know. What a massive disappointment. No idea what the best thing to do with him is. Probably ride him out, make a QO offer and hope he signs elsewhere like you said. Sure glad we didn't extend him at season's start. Dammit though - we could easily be 2-3 wins better if he'd been even his average self so far this year and been healthy. He was a risky acquisition that didn't pay off.

[flafson]

What i don't understand is how come alot of our pitchers get rattled so easily while others don't. It was a miracle JJ was able to finish the 2nd inning to be honest.

[G-Snarls]

What i don't understand is how come alot of our pitchers get rattled so easily while others don't. It was a miracle JJ was able to finish the 2nd inning to be honest.

 

That was the absolute best thing about Roy Halladay. You got a run in on him early in the first inning and got two more runners on base? "Enough of that" he'd be thinking. "f*** you". He's coming with everything he's got, twice as hard as before. He was so good under pressure. Johnson and Romero as the opposite of that it seems.

[G-Snarls]

@MDGonzales: Peavy feels fine. If all goes well Friday in side session. could make rehab start as soon as Tuesday.

[Angrioter]

My guess,Rick Poecello.

 

Something like Oliver+R.Davis+Carreno

 

That would be a great trade. I don't think Detroit touches that.

 

No way

Maybe Santos+R.Davis

[Angrioter]

Give Detroit Janssen too. I love Janssen, but I think Delabar can fill in well at closer and McGowan looks like he's ready to contribute in meaningful spots.

 

Santos is near to return...

 

 

Trade Cecil, Janssen, Santos, Delabar, Oliver.......I don't care, they are all relievers and are easy to replace.

[Deadpool]

Give Detroit Janssen too. I love Janssen, but I think Delabar can fill in well at closer and McGowan looks like he's ready to contribute in meaningful spots.

 

I think we're getting a little pricey here for a mid-rotation starter with draft hype. Not that I'm saying we couldn't do w/o Janssen but those are 4 useful pieces for a guy who would be behind Buehrle in our rotation.

[Chappy]

When is Santos expected back? Its great that our pen is absolutely stacked right now, but AA needs to flip one or two guys for some other value this team can use, or get some solid prospects.

[Chappy]

Santos pitched last night in the GCL.

 

Cool, thanks. So I am guessing he might be back right after the ASB then? I can't see them wanting to rush him considering how good the pen is right now.