NBA Thread

[Laika]

If the difference between DD being worth or not worth his contract is a bit of alternative coaching, then hoping that the team replaces him or upgrades on his position seems like misdirected frustration.

 

I think we can all agree that by far their worst starter (player?) from last year was T.Ross, and he's already been supplanted.

[dineke]

Derozan took s***** long 2s in 2013-14 too and wasn't very efficient that year either.

[GD]

If the difference between DD being worth or not worth his contract is a bit of alternative coaching, then hoping that the team replaces him or upgrades on his position seems like misdirected frustration.

 

I think you're overestimating how good Demar was that year though. That's not the difference between DD being worth or not worth his contract. That's the difference between Demar being mediocre versus intolerable.

 

His 2013-2014 was mediocre. It's like JP Arencibia in 2012, versus JP Arencibia in 2013 (before we knew that framing was really a thing). In 2012, he put up 1.2 fWAR, an 87 wRC+, very mediocre, and there was a small subset of the fans who really didn't like him but a large subset who liked him because he was flashy - he hit DINGERS. He performed similarly the year before. In 2012 and 2013, Demar posted eFG's (effective field goals, like wOBA almost) around .46; mediocre, but passable. Fans loved him, though, because he was flashy; dunk contest, and s***.

 

In 2013, JP Arencibia posted a 56 wRC+ and everyone hated him. In 2014, Demar posted a .426 eFG. Now, the drop off isn't as bad; Demar isn't quite JP Arencibia. But the parallel is there. He's played very poorly, but looked good out of flash.

 

Demar's all around skill set is mediocre. He doesn't have good ball handling, he doesn't have good passing and he can't shoot. He's not a defender. Throughout his career, he's used that skillset to varying degrees. His 2015 bad, his 2014 mediocre. However, that 2014 isn't really good enough either; while a coaching change makes him more of a 2014 guy than a 2015 guy, that 2014 guy isn't someone you want to pay a lot of money to. It's just not a good skill set, through and through.

[burlingtonbandit]

If Demar just attacked the rim and played more like James Harden he and the team would be a ton more successful. Obviously he can't shoot the 3 like him but he would be way more efficient if he attacked the rim everytime. He's got skill but just doesn't use it properly.

[GD]

It's not about him attacking the rim every time, it's about him actually passing when he doesn't have a good shot. no one can just attack the rim every single possession

 

He needs to develop passing skills.

[dineke]

If Demar just attacked the rim and played more like James Harden he and the team would be a ton more successful. Obviously he can't shoot the 3 like him but he would be way more efficient if he attacked the rim everytime. He's got skill but just doesn't use it properly.

 

He can't attack the rim everytime. Harden has one of the best handles in the game while Demar dribbles off his foot more often than not in late game situations.

[Laika]

Hmmm, I thought he was better. I was looking at Wins Produced for SGs from that year and he was like ~10th in the league, but I guess that stat would largely be a function of playing time.

 

I understand what you're saying and I agree. Thank you for sort of explaining why Derozan is a complete plug.

[GD]

Hmmm, I thought he was better. I was looking at Wins Produced for SGs from that year and he was like ~10th in the league, but I guess that stat would largely be a function of playing time.

 

I understand what you're saying and I agree. Thank you for sort of explaining why Derozan is a complete plug.

 

Anytime.

 

Also, Wins Produced is not only a function of raw minutes (playing time), but also usage rate. Players who get the ball more get the opportunity to increase their Wins Produced more. As well, Pace is a factor; Pace is the number of possessions. Some teams have a faster offense, which creates more possessions in the game artificially, which again leads to more opportunities. The rating stats (ORating, DRating, etc) are good at this because they adjust for possessions by putting the ratings as a function of 100 possessions, but they still don't adjust for usage rate.

 

There are all sorts of weird kinks to adjust to in switching from baseball stats to basketball. It's really quite difficult and I'm not even close to being there yet myself. Less publicly available data, less certainty, more weird s***, more hand waving, and a much different sport.

[burlingtonbandit]

It's not about him attacking the rim every time, it's about him actually passing when he doesn't have a good shot. no one can just attack the rim every single possession

 

He needs to develop passing skills.

 

Well I meant he would have 3 point shooters around him similar to Houston. Carrol, Lowry, Ppat.. He does need to be smarter no doubt. I'd rather they just trade him.

[GD]

Well I meant he would have 3 point shooters around him similar to Houston. Carrol, Lowry, Ppat.. He does need to be smarter no doubt. I'd rather they just trade him.

 

So would I. He can't really just transform into James Harden. Doesn't have the handles.

 

I appreciate how hard he's worked for this team but if Amir can leave, anyone can leave.

[KingKat]

GD, since you're so good a this... Can you explain the DeKobe reference? Is HOF player Kobe Bryant really no better than Derozan? Is Kobe ********?

[GD]

GD, since you're so good a this... Can you explain the DeKobe reference? Is HOF player Kobe Bryant really no better than Derozan? Is Kobe ********?

 

What, when Dineke calls Demar DeKobe? That's just saying that Demar tries so hard to be Kobe and fails.

 

Kobe's legit. He's not GOAT but he's up there.

 

And no, I am not good at this. lol

[jays_fever]

Yea I really dont think people comprehend how mediocre Derozan's ball skills and dribbling are. You can't just put your head down and will your way to the basket all game if the defense plays off you. James Harden has elite ball skills and has a sick jumper to go with it.

[GD]

Yea I really dont think people comprehend how mediocre Derozan's ball skills and dribbling are. You can't just put your head down and will your way to the basket all game if the defense plays off you. James Harden has elite ball skills and has a sick jumper to go with it.

 

I wonder if there's a point where if you're driving to the basket every possession and you're not a player with reputation, if there's a point of diminishing returns where you stop getting a ton of foul calls.

[KingKat]

 

And no, I am not good at this. lol

 

Since you're less than half my age, I'm just going to assume you're at least twice as smart.

[NorthOf49]

Wow GD knows a lot about basketball. I'm impressed.

 

I know a lot of people who are hardcore Raptors fans and their analysis doesn't usually run this deep.

[GD]

Wow GD knows a lot about basketball. I'm impressed.

 

I know a lot of people who are hardcore Raptors fans and their analysis doesn't usually run this deep.

 

Well I've played it all my life. Hopefully this summer I'll be playing provincially but that's not a certainty or anything.

 

I know more about baseball. It just seems like I know a lot about basketball because relative to the board's knowledge about baseball I don't know as much.

[GD]

Also I liked Myck Kabongo which makes me suuuuuuuuuuuuper dumn

[dineke]

GD, since you're so good a this... Can you explain the DeKobe reference? Is HOF player Kobe Bryant really no better than Derozan? Is Kobe ********?

 

Kobe... now there's another overrated guy. He still was 100x better than Derozan in his prime though.

[dineke]

Also I liked Myck Kabongo which makes me suuuuuuuuuuuuper dumn

 

Did you also like Anthony Bennett based on summer league? Or was that another person?

[GD]

Kobe... now there's another overrated guy. He still was 100x better than Derozan in his prime though.

 

He's still up there though.

 

Did you also like Anthony Bennett based on summer league? Or was that another person?

 

ECJF and I, I think? It was actually everyone but you.

 

For the record, though, I think you overestimated what I thought those guys would turn into lol

[dineke]

I think you just have a soft spot for Canadians.

[43211234]

I think a decent analogy is that Kobe is Derek Jeter. A legitimate hall of famer but shouldn't be in the discussion for one of the best players of all time.

[GD]

I think you just have a soft spot for Canadians.

 

Yeah I probably used to. Didn't want Tyler Ennis in general though I don't think

 

I think a decent analogy is that Kobe is Derek Jeter. A legitimate hall of famer but shouldn't be in the discussion for one of the best players of all time.

 

Excellent analogy

[dineke]

You can add Tom Brady to that list.

[GD]

I probably won't continue getting into football since I might not play again next year. I want to if I have time though, it was fun to follow this year.

 

I dunno about Brady. Football is so weird. There's absolutely no way to assign proper credit.

[GD]

Philly just traped Sactown

 

They got Stauskas + the right to swap two first rounders for cap space

[Caper]

GD. How is the Raptors offseason going? I don't expect much... seen they signed a couple of guys I never heard of.

[GD]

I am uncomfortable and unworthy of being the board's basketball aficionado

 

Ask dineke pls

 

(pretty good. Carroll is good)

[SpeedyGose]

I am uncomfortable and unworthy of being the board's basketball aficionado

 

Ask dineke pls

 

(pretty good. Carroll is good)

 

I would say really well thus far. Obviously it's only one signing but he also got rid of GV and replaced him with a defensive minded PG that the analytics love.

 

Whether Wes Matthews signs here or not is going to be a huge piece of this. I think the team will go a completely different direction if he goes to Dallas or Sacramento