RA Dickey Bandwagon

[DuckDuckGose]

http://www.emblibrary.com/EL/product_images/A1634.jpg

 

Finally! Someone else that's excited to see Dickey start heating up!

[DuckDuckGose]

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Cabrera is on board

[DuckDuckGose]

I don't think you should trade assets for 5th starters. You can find them everywhere. Either from your bullpen or minor leagues. You make trades for good starters. The Happ trade never made much sense to me. It's not like we gave up anything though.

 

I'm not talking about a fringe guy. I'm talking about an established consistent back end pitcher. Those don't grow on trees.

[Dick_Pole]

Why does no one acknowledge the injury risk associated with D'arnaud...prior to this year he's had back injuries and knee injuries. That's not really a good recipe for a catcher....bulging disks in your back at such a young age are a very serious concern...and now with his foot injury...D'arnaud may never play a game......Pitching prospects are hit and miss and the jays needed pitchers now...If Dickey pitches well the rest of the way this won't be that bad of a deal....the jays still have sanchez. There is a serious lovefest with prospects here...some are still expecting Snider to turn things around...I mean he was the number 3 prospect in baseball at one point..

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. The main blinders with people who are prospect/young player friendly is that they far overvalue their worth. KC gave up way more to get Shields and Davis and we're already seeing a taste of what Myers can do right now.

 

I recall people had no issue with Snider giving handshakes in the dugout when everyone assumed he was being traded for Garza. Then it turned out to be Lincoln and there's been constant crying about how the Jays gave up on him. People didn't have a problem with the idea of giving up on Snider, they had a problem with AA not waving a magic wand and getting a king's ransom with horse manure. The market dictated that all he was worth was Lincoln. Nothing more. And he continues to prove that point while with the Pirates.

 

If you look at the Dickey trade in the context of the Shields trade or other veteran-for-prospect type of trades within the past decade like Josh Beckett or Bartolo Colon, the Jays did just fine. The only reference I see the Dickey trade being specifically referred to as bad is how they missed out on Latos with a similar package. First, we'll never know the full story on that one so much of it is hearsay, and second if this was their runner-up trade, getting the previous year's NL Cy Young is a pretty good consolation prize. Latos is a free agent in 2016 while Dickey is signed to a relatively team friendly contract through then. There's a good chance that the Jays get Dickey for longer than the Reds will have Latos, unless they sign him to some expensive long term contract. The biggest negative factor is age, but with a knuckleballer that becomes a huge wildcard where age might not be a factor at all.

 

I think the prospect love-in by the board is a product of a couple of big time posters who are in love with the way TB does things and that spreads among the younger crowd who are too easily influenced by what they read. You don't just turn every pitching prospect you have into David Price, and if you do, it's a mix between great luck and very good player development.

 

If we examine that TB "success" more closely, 2013 is essentially their version of the 1992 Blue Jays as they are 21 years younger. And the 2013 Rays are nowhere near the talent of the 1992 Blue Jays, nor anywhere near the success. What the Jays did in the 1980's pisses all over what the Rays have done so far (even with the one WS appearance) since 2008. What the Rays are is a team that has done pretty well for their small budget. For some reason people care more about that than winning at all costs (the Yankees model) as if they are in the accounting department for Rogers.

[EdelweissBouquet]

Why does no one acknowledge the injury risk associated with D'arnaud...prior to this year he's had back injuries and knee injuries. That's not really a good recipe for a catcher....bulging disks in your back at such a young age are a very serious concern...and now with his foot injury...D'arnaud may never play a game......Pitching prospects are hit and miss and the jays needed pitchers now...If Dickey pitches well the rest of the way this won't be that bad of a deal....the jays still have sanchez. There is a serious lovefest with prospects here...some are still expecting Snider to turn things around...I mean he was the number 3 prospect in baseball at one point..

 

 

Well said.

[EdelweissBouquet]

And you also Mr.Pole, well said. Hit the nail on the head with what TB has done and what they've accomplished and not accomplished.

[CHRIS]

I guess I wanted AA to build a sustained winner in the way Texas had done it.

 

The sustained winner thing can still happen, provided that guys like Hutch can backfill for guys like Johnson once he leaves; Gose for Rasmus; Lawrie develops into something...

 

To be perfectly honest though, with the current organizational structure and beliefs, I think going big in trades was the only chance they had to build a winning club. How many good players have they developed over the last 20 years? Certainly not enough to make me think they could construct the bulk of a championship calibre roster from young talent.

[Deadpool]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The main blinders with people who are prospect/young player friendly is that they far overvalue their worth. KC gave up way more to get Shields and Davis and we're already seeing a taste of what Myers can do right now.

 

I recall people had no issue with Snider giving handshakes in the dugout when everyone assumed he was being traded for Garza. Then it turned out to be Lincoln and there's been constant crying about how the Jays gave up on him. People didn't have a problem with the idea of giving up on Snider, they had a problem with AA not waving a magic wand and getting a king's ransom with horse manure. The market dictated that all he was worth was Lincoln. Nothing more. And he continues to prove that point while with the Pirates.

 

If you look at the Dickey trade in the context of the Shields trade or other veteran-for-prospect type of trades within the past decade like Josh Beckett or Bartolo Colon, the Jays did just fine. The only reference I see the Dickey trade being specifically referred to as bad is how they missed out on Latos with a similar package. First, we'll never know the full story on that one so much of it is hearsay, and second if this was their runner-up trade, getting the previous year's NL Cy Young is a pretty good consolation prize. Latos is a free agent in 2016 while Dickey is signed to a relatively team friendly contract through then. There's a good chance that the Jays get Dickey for longer than the Reds will have Latos, unless they sign him to some expensive long term contract. The biggest negative factor is age, but with a knuckleballer that becomes a huge wildcard where age might not be a factor at all.

 

I think the prospect love-in by the board is a product of a couple of big time posters who are in love with the way TB does things and that spreads among the younger crowd who are too easily influenced by what they read. You don't just turn every pitching prospect you have into David Price, and if you do, it's a mix between great luck and very good player development.

 

If we examine that TB "success" more closely, 2013 is essentially their version of the 1992 Blue Jays as they are 21 years younger. And the 2013 Rays are nowhere near the talent of the 1992 Blue Jays, nor anywhere near the success. What the Jays did in the 1980's pisses all over what the Rays have done so far (even with the one WS appearance) since 2008. What the Rays are is a team that has done pretty well for their small budget. For some reason people care more about that than winning at all costs (the Yankees model) as if they are in the accounting department for Rogers.

 

R.A. Dickey is 38 years old.

 

Srsly, betting anything on a 38 year old, even if he won the Cy Young the previous year, is not smart.

[G-Snarls]

I wish Morrow or JJ were going today after the Dickey start

[G-Snarls]

To be perfectly honest though, with the current organizational structure and beliefs, I think going big in trades was the only chance they had to build a winning club. How many good players have they developed over the last 20 years? Certainly not enough to make me think they could construct the bulk of a championship calibre roster from young talent.

 

Agree. The Rays we are not.

[G-Snarls]

Agree. The Rays we are not.

 

Which kind of sucks. When AA took over and stated his plan, and had all those draft picks, I thought we were on our way to becoming "The Rays with money".

 

Obviously, that's not what this team has become at all.

[Olerud363]

I guess I wanted AA to build a sustained winner in the way Texas had done it. I don't think trading a bunch of prospects for huge contracts in one offseason was the way AA had envisioned it. He probably got pressured by the ownership to build a winner ASAP.

 

Yeah... I find a lot of posters don't respect these type of thoughts.

 

I had expected AA to build a great farm system. I looked forward to watching young Jays come up and develop. Really haven't seen any of that yet. I love watching young players come through the system. MLB is also a development stage. It is exciting seeing a young guy come up and watching him get better year after year.

 

That is just not happening. Young players are being jettisoned for old folks... those that stay aren't developing. If you complain about it you're labeled a troll and told in a snappy one sentence way...

 

"Incomprehensible post mate. Take a pill. Watch the birds and enjoy."

 

Stand in line. Drink a labatt's. Schmooze with the big wigs. Enjoy 80 wins. Don't pipe up. The Beest knows best.

 

(Edit: actually been a long time since "Drink a Labatt's" would of been encouraged by Blue Jays suits... now it's spend 300 bucks a month on internet/cable/smart phone packages. Longily miss the days when "Chill out and drink a Labatt's would of been the coorporate line".)

[Dick_Pole]

R.A. Dickey is 38 years old.

 

Srsly, betting anything on a 38 year old, even if he won the Cy Young the previous year, is not smart.

 

But if he was 28, they'd have to add in Gose and Sanchez to get him.

[Dick_Pole]

Which kind of sucks. When AA took over and stated his plan, and had all those draft picks, I thought we were on our way to becoming "The Rays with money".

 

Obviously, that's not what this team has become at all.

 

When you look at any of the players under the age of 23 that the Jays have had in the last 5 years, can anyone honestly say that any of them had the upside of David Price or Even Longoria? Even at the height of Travis Snider worship the consensus was 30+ HR power but his BA would be around .250.

 

People bemoan the Dickey, Happ and Marlins trades yet in those three trades I can't say that one prospect they gave up was elite. They gave up a lot of depth, but a lot of depth of ok to good prospects wins you minor league titles. It doesn't win you World Series titles.

 

At no point in time were they ever the Rays, and I ask why does anyone want to be the Rays? Their first wave of prospects came from being awful for a decade so they consistently got top picks, more than half of which was blown on garbage and that includes Hamilton because he was a lost cause at the time. They can't keep their own players. They can't put it together as they have only one World Series appearance, three playoff appearances and two seasons with more than 92 wins. A ton of prospects and potential and that's about it. They sit somewhere in between the Jays of the 80's and the post-strike Expos as a franchise when the end result for a successful team should be the Jays of the early 90's. The Jays should just poach a few of their scouts and player development people then people can shut up about whacking off the Rays' ego over what a model team they are.

 

Yeah sure, if you're an accountant or are trying to win a salary cap keeper fantasy league, the Rays model is a good one to follow. If you want to win at actual MLB consistently, a Yankees or Cardinals model is something you'll need.

[G-Snarls]

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/miggy_composite.gif

 

Cabrera is on board

 

Cabrera also thinks we should have kept Wang in the rotation. Hahahaha.

 

Sigh

[G-Snarls]

Miggy so far this year, 1 game past the mid point:

 

.368/.458/.678 OPS:1.136

26 HR

85 RBI

 

FFS...