NHL Thread

[Pendleton]

Leafs went blow for blow with Montreal last season and Boston the previous years and could have easily been in their place as well. But they weren't.

 

I wouldn't have said the same in previous years. They had a fantastic season and pushed the two time defending champs (and recent finalists) right to the brink. It's unfortunate that circumstances led to those two teams meeting in round one. In the least they were among the best 3-4 teams in the East but in my opinion Toronto and Tampa would have been the most fitting ECF.

[BTS]

Alfredsson, Luongo, and the Sedins going into the HoF

[Laika]

Alfredsson, Luongo, and the Sedins going into the HoF

 

you think they are all deserving?

 

every year the HoF inductees come out in hockey I feel like it's just a hall of very good

[Krylian]

you think they are all deserving?

 

every year the HoF inductees come out in hockey I feel like it's just a hall of very good

 

Luongo is.

[John_Havok]

Dunno man, if you looks at some of his numbers, they are right up there with the best of them. No Cup, but 2 Olympic gold medals.

 

10th highest save percentage all time and the highest all time of all goaltenders who played more than 900 games (that list is 8 names long has Brodeur, Sawchuk, Roy, Belfour, CuJo, Glenn Hall and Marc Andre Fleury on it)

2nd most games played.

4th most wins.

9th most shutouts.

 

Seems pretty Hall worthy to me.

 

But when youi play the vast majority of your career in FLorida and Vancouver... you get to fly under the radar alot.

[BTS]

you think they are all deserving?

 

every year the HoF inductees come out in hockey I feel like it's just a hall of very good

 

I think they're all deserving based on the precedents that have been set. I kind of like that hockey is a big hall sport and there aren't really any snubs. I think baseball is worse with the super high barrier, but then also weird inductions like Harold Baines who were worse than a bunch of players who will never get in.

[Spanky__99]

The Avs lost only 4 games the entire playoffs, that's an insane run, lol.

[jaysblue]

Honestly every Canadian team is too soft

 

Has been this way for years. Why did all of them trend this way?

 

No Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup since the Habs in 1993. Canucks came close last decade, though that's about it.

[jaysblue]

I wouldn't have said the same in previous years. They had a fantastic season and pushed the two time defending champs (and recent finalists) right to the brink. It's unfortunate that circumstances led to those two teams meeting in round one. In the least they were among the best 3-4 teams in the East but in my opinion Toronto and Tampa would have been the most fitting ECF.

 

They had a fantastic season yes, though playoff hockey is a different type of animal. With an elite core of Matthews, Taveras, Marner, Nylander, they haven't even been able to get by the first round. If the Leafs can't win a Stanley Cup in the next one or two years with these guys in their prime, they never will.

[John_Havok]

No Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup since the Habs in 1993. Canucks came close last decade, though that's about it.

 

Yup, Canucks in 2011, Oilers in 2006 and the Flames robbed in 2004.

[jaysblue]

Yup, Canucks in 2011, Oilers in 2006 and the Flames robbed in 2004.

 

I thought the Leafs in 2002 could have went all the way. They met the Hurricanes in the Eastern Conference Finals after beating the Islanders and Devils (their Kryptonite that decade). Red Wings would have likely beat them that season, though still the furthest the Leafs have gone in the longest times.

 

Leafs could use a top goalie who could carry them in the Playoffs. Miss the days of Joseph and Balfour.

[Krylian]

They had a fantastic season yes, though playoff hockey is a different type of animal. With an elite core of Matthews, Taveras, Marner, Nylander, they haven't even been able to get by the first round. If the Leafs can't win a Stanley Cup in the next one or two years with these guys in their prime, they never will.

 

I wouldn't say never will. Might be a completely different core... Might be in another 300 years, but never isn't an accurate take I don't think.

[jaysblue]

I wouldn't say never will. Might be a completely different core... Might be in another 300 years, but never isn't an accurate take I don't think.

 

This is probably the best core the Leafs have had in the past two decades. A lot better than the Leafs in late 90s and early 2000s, when you had Sundin, Mogilny, Gary Roberts, Tucker, Thomas etc. If they can't win a Stanley Cup with the core they have, which I think on paper looks like one of the best in the league, it's going to extremely tough to draft and develop another top core again. The waiting game will continue.

 

Do you give the Leafs another season with this core to see how far they can go, or do you shakeup something by trading one of Matthews, Marner, Taveras or Nylander for another superstar caliber guy?

[Laika]

I think they could rebuild around Matthews at some point in the future and try again.

 

How many teams did Washington have to try to build around Ovechkin before finally winning a cup? Several different constructions right.

 

It depends how Matthews ages of course and how long he can be locked up for.

 

Tavares is still okay... what does he have left on his deal like three years?

[Krylian]

This is probably the best core the Leafs have had in the past two decades. A lot better than the Leafs in late 90s and early 2000s, when you had Sundin, Mogilny, Gary Roberts, Tucker, Thomas etc. If they can't win a Stanley Cup with the core they have, which I think on paper looks like one of the best in the league, it's going to extremely tough to draft and develop another top core again. The waiting game will continue.

 

Do you give the Leafs another season with this core to see how far they can go, or do you shakeup something by trading one of Matthews, Marner, Taveras or Nylander for another superstar caliber guy?

 

Tavares isn't going anywhere. Tough to find someone that can take on $11M. He's still solid, but is clearly on the decline. Plus I don't see him waiving his NMC.

Matthews is going nowhere.

Marner is probably not going anywhere. Again, almost $11M...hard to find a taker without taking on comparable money. Tremendous talent...is great with Matthews...and do you see any deal where the Leafs come out better after moving him?

Nylander is the obvious guy. 30+ goal scorer. 80 point guy. $7M ticket...very team friendly. Personally, I don't think I'd move him, BUT, I would float his name out there and see if there are any GM's that have a big hardon for him...maybe someone is willing to pay a hefty price that makes sense for the Leafs.

 

I'd rather look at doing something with Kerfoot/Muzzin/Holl. I like the core...it's that second tier of supporting characters that needs work.

 

All that said, need a goalie that is a legit game changer. They don't grow on trees, but they have to find one...somewhere, somehow.

[The Cats Ass]

I think they could rebuild around Matthews at some point in the future and try again.

 

How many teams did Washington have to try to build around Ovechkin before finally winning a cup? Several different constructions right.

 

It depends how Matthews ages of course and how long he can be locked up for.

 

Tavares is still okay... what does he have left on his deal like three years?

 

Ya, 3. I wonder if he'll continue to keep coming back to the team on friendly deals similar to Spezza the past few years.

[Laika]

Ya, 3. I wonder if he'll continue to keep coming back to the team on friendly deals similar to Spezza the past few years.

 

then that's the window for the current core I suppose

 

I think they should trade Nylander though

[Spanky__99]

then that's the window for the current core I suppose

 

I think they should trade Nylander though

 

For... It'd better be a haul at 7M?

[Laika]

For... It'd better be a haul at 7M?

 

I don't know enough about hockey to say

 

I just don't think he's a complete player and they don't really need his offense

[Spanky__99]

I don't know enough about hockey to say

 

I just don't think he's a complete player and they don't really need his offense

 

A goalie or top 2 dman, would be the best. I doubt they move him.

[Krylian]

I don't know enough about hockey to say

 

I just don't think he's a complete player and they don't really need his offense

 

If you really break it down...

 

Matthews and Marner (elite offence)

Tavares (very good offence)

[trade Nylander]

 

...who else do the Leafs have that you can legitimately count on for 20+ goals and 60+ points? Kerfoot maaaybe? Bunting? Who's gonna play with Tavares? I'm not sure he can carry a couple of average wingers and still be a productive line.

 

Most of the Leafs offence is pretty top heavy. I think you'd see a hit after moving Nylander (unless you get back someone else that can play in the Top 6). They haven't developed any offensive forwards in a little while that can be relied on to play steady Top 6 minutes...unless I'm forgetting about someone.

[Laika]

If you really break it down...

 

Matthews and Marner (elite offence)

Tavares (very good offence)

[trade Nylander]

 

...who else do the Leafs have that you can legitimately count on for 20+ goals and 60+ points? Kerfoot maaaybe? Bunting? Who's gonna play with Tavares? I'm not sure he can carry a couple of average wingers and still be a productive line.

 

Most of the Leafs offence is pretty top heavy. I think you'd see a hit after moving Nylander (unless you get back someone else that can play in the Top 6). They haven't developed any offensive forwards in a little while that can be relied on to play steady Top 6 minutes...unless I'm forgetting about someone.

 

Crosby used to play with two nobodies

 

I'd probably put Marner with Johnny T and ask Matthews to carry two dudes on his line.

 

No doubt they lose offense if they move Nylander but I think if the trade is good they come out as a better team all things considered.

[Krylian]

Crosby used to play with two nobodies

 

I'd probably put Marner with Johnny T and ask Matthews to carry two dudes on his line.

 

No doubt they lose offense if they move Nylander but I think if the trade is good they come out as a better team all things considered.

 

I don't think Matthews is the type of player that drives play through the neutral zone the way a Crosby or a Marner does. I think he's better handing that off to someone else while he gets into position in the offensive zone to attack. Just my own opinion though.

 

That said, if it's the right move, I would be willing to move Nylander. But not just for the sake of shaking things up. Needs to actually make the team better.

[jaysblue]

Nylander seems like a guy who could be an 80-90 point player one season and then a 50-60 point player the next season. He's not in the same elite class as a Matthews or Marner.

 

Even when the Leafs brought Nylander back at 7M a couple of years ago, he wasn't playing that well and I remember some Leafs fans and media personalities were questioning the contract and whether or not he could be easily moved.

 

He's coming off a career year this past season and his trade value is probably the highest it will be. If the Leafs can get a top D man or goalie that makes the team better especially to go on a deep playoff run, they should consider it.

[jaysblue]

Any free agents that the Leafs could target and afford?

 

Phil Kessel on a line with Matthews or Marner would be pretty sick. Plus Kessel can visit his favourite hot dog stand outside of Union Station everyday haha.

[Krylian]

Any free agents that the Leafs could target and afford?

 

Phil Kessel on a line with Matthews or Marner would be pretty sick. Plus Kessel can visit his favourite hot dog stand outside of Union Station everyday haha.

 

Afford is the issue. They need several sub $2M deals to round out the bottom 6. Goaltending really is the big shopping item. Currently, Mrazek and Kallgren are the Leafs goalies. That's AHL calibre if I'm brutally honest. Doesn't matter what pieces are added up front if they can't find a reliable netminder who can come up big when it matters most.

[jaysblue]

Afford is the issue. They need several sub $2M deals to round out the bottom 6. Goaltending really is the big shopping item. Currently, Mrazek and Kallgren are the Leafs goalies. That's AHL calibre if I'm brutally honest. Doesn't matter what pieces are added up front if they can't find a reliable netminder who can come up big when it matters most.

 

Yeah so they will have to be creative and move a big piece in order to free up some salary cap and/or to go after an elite goaltender.

[Laika]

Goalies are weird though. With the exception of the obviously elite guys like Vasilevsky, it's hard to dissect the quality of a goalie from the quality of general team defense

 

 

So many times you see teams, over the years, bring in a "good" or big name goalie and they just play mediocre because it's more about team D than it is about goalie talent. Most of the time. Like I said, there are rare exceptions.

[Krylian]

Goalies are weird though. With the exception of the obviously elite guys like Vasilevsky, it's hard to dissect the quality of a goalie from the quality of general team defense

 

 

So many times you see teams, over the years, bring in a "good" or big name goalie and they just play mediocre because it's more about team D than it is about goalie talent. Most of the time. Like I said, there are rare exceptions.

 

They're like closers. There's a handful of truly elite ones that you can count on year over year. Otherwise, it's a bit of a crapshoot every season.

 

Not sure what the right approach is as Campbell, Kuemper, and Husso are probably the three top UFAs at that position, but they all carry big question marks. Trading for one is also risky as well as now you're adding assets to the mix rather than just free agent money.

 

I wonder if Fleury has any interest in signing a 1-2 year deal in Toronto. Gives them pedigree and proven consistency in net and buys them 2 years to figure out what the long term goaltending solution is. Maybe one of their Russian goalie prospects or Woll take a step forward by then.

[Horses Fart]

Kinda use to hearing Soooooup at the Games now so let’s give Husso a try for a couple years. Huuuuuuuuuu…..