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Come on man, nobody has said Moreno is a total bust. He just hasn't developed offensively to anything more than a league average bat at this point and it's far from a given he'll ever be more than that. His underlying metrics all point to a decidedly average bat at best and unless he makes tangible changes to his overall batted ball profile he's not going to be more than that.

Not sure I agree that Vlad's production with runners in scoring position is any kind of issue. He's up to 128 wRC+ with RISP for the season as a whole, but it's been trending upwards much like his overall numbers over his two month hot streak. Up until nearly the end of April he was sitting at 38 wRC+ which is obviously terrible for a player in a run production spot in the lineup. Over the last two months he's produced 177 wRC+ with runners in scoring position which is actually better production that his overall numbers over that span of time.

I hate to even really hazard a guess here as I just don't know what the market value for Vlad would be. He's already earning $20 million per season, and if he continues mashing the rest of the season he's going to see a massive raise in arbitration as he received a $5 million raise last offseason despite the relative struggles of 2023. It's hard to see him signing long term for less than a $25 million AAV as a result. He should be able to roll out of bed and produce 150 wRC+ seasons based on his raw talent alone but unfortunately that hasn't been the case other than his MVP caliber 2021 season. First base/DH types haven't been handed out monster extensions or free agency deals in recent seasons so there isn't really a recent precedent for one of these types of deals for a player with his natural offensive gifts that primarily mans first base. I think the early declines of all of Pujols, Fielder and Cabrera outlined the hazards of giving out mega deals to defensively limited and/or bad body types of players and this will likely limit the overall term that Vlad receives. I think once Vlad eventually signs an extension or in free agency this will likely set a bit of a new precedent moving forward.

That's all well and good that Moreno was a top 5 prospect in online publications, but ultimately that's immaterial when it comes down to how other front offices viewed his actual trade value. He had a very serious question mark in the lack of power in the bat that he still hasn't put to rest and this is the primary factor that's limited his offensive output. It's not an issue in this neck of the woods but there are still posters in other online discussion sections that view the guy as some sort of generational catching prospect when he's proven that he's nothing of the sort up to this point.

Vlad has been mashing for the last two months now. He put up a 173 wRC+ from April 28-June 8 despite the lack of power as he hit only 4 home runs. This shows how productive he can be even without the ball leaving the yard. He cooled off for a week in early June with a -37 wRC+ over a 6 game sample before the recent power explosion which has seen a 215 wRC+ over an 11 game sample including 4 home runs. I legitimately think he's earned an extension at this point as he's most likely fixed at the plate, but it's most likely going to be difficult for Vlad and the club to align on value at this point given how close he is to reaching free agency.

With Vlad and Springer seemingly rediscovering their power strokes and Horwitz and Turner constantly on base lately the offense is suddenly becoming interesting. Of course in typical 2024 Blue Jays fashion this will likely be evened out by deep slumps from Bo, Jansen, Varsho, Schneider etc. but at least it's a start.

I recently commented that George Springer should have to earn his playing time. I think he's put that particular issue to bed for the next little while.

That doesn't feel like much of a stretch as he still received a $5.5 million raise in arbitration last offseason.

So this is just another example of you inserting another irrelevant example like other recent threads. Duly noted.

Is it too complicated for you to understand that the processes behind the results suggest this player should be producing nowhere close to the same types of results as the players you keep bringing up? Santiago Espinal was always ripe for a massive correction to his batted ball results given the poor quality of contact metrics that illustrated how unlikely he would be to continue to enjoy success. Ryan Goins never had a single successful season at the plate and was a legitimately awful major league hitter.

I don't Atkins has implied it's some sort of mystery as to why the Blue Jays bullpen has been so bad this season. Romano and Swanson suffered injuries in the spring, were bad upon return and both are unavailable at present. Garcia is out due to injury. Mayza has seen a dramatic reduction in his stuff and subsequently his results are bad as well. Depth guys like Rodriguez and Francis both missed a lot of time due to injury as well.

It's far from a given that Soto is going to just go to the highest bidder no matter the competitive situation the club has to offer. Chances are all of the respective teams are going to be in the same ballpark financially when it comes to the overall offer and money won't be the deciding factor.

When courting Ohtani the Jays could point to a string of successful seasons and where he could be a finishing touch to put them over the top. With Soto the team would have to convince him that this year's total s*** show was going to be a single year anomaly and that they would be imminently reversing their fortunes.

So now you are comparing Bo to Ryan Goins after a Santiago Espinal example previously. Come on man this is getting ridiculous and reaching near troll levels. There's not much point in surmising Bo's bat speed as what's wrong with him as we don't have any previous year's data to compare it to. Bo has certainly seen a drop off in a lot of key metrics and hasn't gotten on track aside from a few bursts since the knee injury last season. He is one of many examples on the team of not producing the expected results the quality of contact would suggest to be the case. The team failed miserably in the offseason to address the performance issues of so many members of the offense and it's high time for some new progressive voices to be brought aboard.

I'd try to do both. The team needs to add more elite offensive talent, and I think having someone like Soto on the team would be a tremendous asset in helping Vlad to finally reach his ceiling year in and year out. There's a snowball's chance in hell Juan Soto would choose to sign with the Blue Jays anyway though vs Vlad who actually appears to be willing to stay long term.

Bo isn't about to become Santiago Epsinal at the plate long term, he's just far too talented for that to be the case. He'll get himself sorted at the plate eventually as the underlying numbers are still decent enough. I wouldn't place any money on him hitting 4 WAR this season but I'm fully confident he'll turn himself around at the plate at some point this season. He produced a .352 xwOBA/.231 wOBA for the month of June and .357 xwOBA/.318 wOBA for the month of May so it's not like he's been as bad at the plate as the results would suggest.

I just hate when hitters directly state that they are trying to aim the ball up the middle given how hard it is to actually produce any results this way. There are a lot of guys on the team who hit a ton of their hard hit balls nearly directly at the right fielder as well. It seems like Bo and Kirk and even Vlad to a degree are much easier to defend as a result.

Yeah I think his stuff should play in out of the rotation but he needs to iron out the command issues.

That team had a really sizeable positive run differential at that point whereas this team is currently sitting at -46.

Tiedemann was on the bump tonight. Put up 5 K's in 2.1 innings along with 2 walks.

I looked up the expected stats during this period and Bo sits at a .316 xwOBA/.275 wOBA. Springer and Kirk have similar splits as well which sees them dramatically underperforming their expected stats. A key job for whoever eventually overlooks the hitters will be turning the quality of contact these guys produce into actual results on the field.

I suspect Barger's 2023 downturn in power was more due to the reported elbow issue that he played through. I recall it didn't really affect his throwing but had a large effect on his offensive output. In his AAA stint this season he was back to producing fairly similar power output to his 2022 numbers in A+/AA.

Feel free to provide receipts where I suggested Springer should be permanently benched. Having said that I see no issue with reducing his playing time a bit until he shows he's able to produce better results at the plate. Turner had an abysmal month of May and needed to earn an increase in playing time and I see no reason why Springer shouldn't need to do the same thing. Other contending teams that don't feature half of their lineup simultaneously producing the worst seasons of their respective careers can afford to keep a struggling veteran in the lineup every day and still keep winning games. If you are suggesting that featuring George Springer's 71 wRC+ in the lineup every day of the week isn't having a material effect on a struggling offensive lineup I don't know what to say at that point. Seeing as how I never said to permanently bench Springer then it stands to reason I would suggest nothing of the sort for Bo. They have each struggled to similar degrees, however Springer's struggles are part of a prolonged year over year decline which have seen his results at the plate suffer from a precipitous decline over several seasons of play, vs Bo whose struggles are much shorter in nature. Springer is 34 years of age and appears to be well past his offensive prime, vs Bo who is 26 old, in his physical prime, and coming off of a 126 wRC+ season. Are you this obtuse intentionally? I'd like to think you aren't actually dumb enough to feature this type of argument but I'm perfectly willing to shift course if necessary.

Yeah I've fully come to terms with a selloff needing to happen at the trade deadline and don't know how I'd react if the team actually creeped back into contention.

He looked like Robocop without his helmet the day he was hired.