glory

0.7 WAR, 219 IP, 4.79 ERA, 4.26 FIP Richards as a Blue Jay over the last 3.5 years. Let's just be thankful he doesn't have any arb years left.

There's definitely a package with the Mariners that would make sense for both sides. The Jays (Rogers/Shapiro/both) don't have the balls to do it, but the M's are the team that has the need, desperation, and prospect capital to make this type of move worth it from the Jays end.

0 prospects and for now only 1 bad contract (Berrios). Not a great spot for a new president/GM, but better than Shapiro hiring a new GM to try to put lipstick on a pig in 2025, and then a new president hired in 2026 being stuck paying Atkins and that new GM before he can even bring his own people in. At this rate, I think Shapiro is the one that needs to go, so if Rogers lets him go after the season (they won't), then that might be the best course of action. Having a lame duck team president with no incentive to care about anything beyond 2025 on a team in the Jays current position is just a really bad situation.

The Mariners might be the team that would overpay for Vlad, and they have some interesting prospects (Ford, Montes, Emerson, Young). Would be curious to see what they would have offered if Vlad was available.

As I mentioned in another thread, with Shapiro only having a year left on his deal, if he hasn't already agreed to some sort of extension, then he shouldn't be hiring the new GM. So if Shapiro is back in 2025 minus an agreement to stay longer, then unfortunately it makes more sense to just keep Atkins for one more year. Then if 2025 ends up like many of us are expecting it to, then they can get rid of both of them and start fresh.

What’s interesting about the extension talk is that Shapiro is a FA the same time as Vlad is. Maybe they already have a mutual understanding that Shapiro is staying beyond 2025, but if the Jays need to extend their star and (presumably) replace their GM, then a guy with 1 year left on his deal probably shouldn’t be making either of those calls.

Yeah I think he wants 10/300 or something along those lines. Wouldn’t shock me if the Jays gave it to him.

According to Robert Murray, the Jays are listening on offers for IKF. Said “so many teams” were willing to give him a 2 year deal in the winter. Getting a 2 WAR out of him in half a season and then trading him for something useful would be a good outcome.

I remember being really excited about Michael Taylor based on his minor league numbers, before he was flipped for Wallace (which I hated). Both ended up being nothing.

That's amazing.

In a market as big as Toronto, I don’t think that’s true. Fans want to see a winner, and they will move on to the next “franchise player” when the time comes. I’m sure casuals will be upset if Vlad is traded, but if the team is good again in 2-3 years, I don’t see it having any long lasting impact. On the flip side, if the team has Vlad, even an extended Vlad, on a bunch of s***** teams trying to compete over the next 2 years, will attendance still be up? I don’t know about that. Unless fans really love the stadium renovations, I think interest will drop regardless. Jays saw a ~1 million fan drop from 2017 to 2018. The 2024 attendance is likely in part due to the renovations and in part due to the 2021-23 run, but next season’s attendance will be a real test. With that said, if the Jays aren’t trading him now, and Rogers wants to keep him, then extend him. If you want to dangle a carrot at free agents, at least having an extended Vlad shows that another “star” will be there for a while.

Yes because the Jays would definitely go to their farm system over s***** vets. The 2024 season has proven that. I don't even think I was hyping up the genius of the Orioles FO. What they are doing is smart but I'm not sure how many teams would operate the same way (respect the vetrins and all that). Maybe most would, I don't know, but I don't think the Jays would have. Hell, I don't think the Jays trade Mountcastle if they had him now, much less if they were sitting in a playoff spot.

They are justified in wanting to trade them, especially with their internal prospect depth. I'm just pointing out how sad that is as a Jays fan that a 1st place team can recognize that but a last place Jays team is deeming Chris Bassitt critical to next season's roster. The difference in player development, front office quality, etc, is night and day.

According to MLBTR, the Orioles are open to trading Mullins and Mountcastle. A team in 1st place in the division looking to trade vets in their 20’s due to internal depth while the last place Jays holding on to 36 year old Bassitt for dear life.

Sure, the most sensible direction would be to not care about wins in 2025 and retool for 2026-27. I'm just saying if Rogers is against that and just wants a path to get 2.5-3 million asses in the stadium, then figure out a logical way to balance putting the team in a better position long term with keeping your boss happy. With that said, fans see through BS. The Jays drew 3.2 million fans in 2017, opted to go for it in 2018 despite common sense dictating otherwise, and then by the 2nd series of the season they averaged 17k in a 3 game set at home against the White Sox, after drawing only 29k on a Sunday against the Yankees. In other words, the fans saw right through it by the first week of that season. There's no guarantee that running it back again, except with Paul Goldschmidt at DH, or whatever other band aid fixes Shapiro has in mind, is going to do anything meaningful to attendance, especially now that the novelty of the stadium renovations may have worn out. Also, even if the Jays by some chance actually make the playoffs in 2025, then what? More than half the roster is a FA in either 2025-26, and they only have one controllable young player who looks like he might be starting caliber in the bigs right now (and he's a 26 year old 1B playing 2B!). Maybe DS can be a good player, maybe Jimenez, but if you're running it back, then there's a good chance you'll have to retool/rebuild anyway the year after.

Couldn’t they trade Vlad, Bassitt, and others while reallocating the saved money this winter to try for 80 wins? They’d have money to spend plus prospects in that scenario. Rogers as you said probably just wants to stay reasonably competitive for tickets and don’t care about the actual baseball stuff but this is the 2nd time under Shapiro that the Jays will be operating like this. It’s not a good look for him at this point. Shows a lack of foresight and creativity.

Passan is spot on here, as many of us have been saying. Unfortunately what he suggests is not happening with the ownership and front office in place. The fact that fans and media can see it but the Jays can’t is baffling.

If they keep Vlad this deadline (they will), then it better be to extend him this winter, even if it's an overpay (it will be). Keeping Vlad and then letting him test free agency because you want to compete in 2025 is borderline incompetent. Keeping him because you want to extend him is fine, just get it done before the 2025 season. Bo is probably more reminiscent of JD, right down to the lower body injuries. Unfortunately he sucked and got hurt. Would the Jays have traded him this week if he were healthy and productive? I have my doubts on that, but we will never know. Bo sucking ass and getting hurt might have saved the front office from having to explain why the hell they are keeping him.

Or a player with 1-3 years of service time that another team is not valuing or is giving up on (ex. Drury).

Yeah seems like he wanted to be drafted by the Jays and thought highly of their player development at the time (which seems laughable in hindsight given what we've seen the last few years). He seems to have lost his admiration for the org since then, though who knows when that started. I think he definitely has one foot out the door right now, but he has every incentive in the world to have a big 2025 to 1) hit free agency at a high, and 2) get the hell out of TO in a trade if they are out of it next July.

I would be surprised if the 2024 trade deadline wasn't a full on attempt to fill as many 2025 holes as possible, even at the expense of upside. If they traded Kikuchi for 2 guys in A ball with high ceilings/low floors, then I'd be legit shocked (though pleased since the Jays badly need some upside in the system). The 2025 trade deadline if they are out of it is a different story, as I can't imagine anyone in the org would be delusional enough to think the 2026 team would be any good if the 2025 team stunk too.

I don’t think it would have been an egregious move to walk Judge in that spot. Like imagine if you had to face 2021 Vlad when 2024 Kirk was on deck. It wouldn’t be a move I’d make in a general sense but a MVP vs a .600 OPS guy on deck is a no brainer. If it fails then it fails.

The Jays going for it in 2025 and finally coming to terms with a rebuild by July 2025 seems like a very real possibility. The one benefit to 2025 vs 2018 when they did the exact same thing is that the 2025 roster should have a position player core mostly in their 20’s, but obviously development has been an issue with this team so age hasn’t helped them recently in that sense. At least it’s better than banking on a bunch of vets on their last legs like 2018. I’m curious to see if Shapiro has his AA 2015 “I won’t be here to clean this s*** up” moment in the winter. Something like a 7 year deal for Bregman, or something.