glory

Goins is not going anywhere. I have come to accept that fact. He'll be around for a long time. If he made the roster this season when they already had Barney on the freaking team, then he'll make it next year when Barney is a free agent. He's the turd who can't be flushed.

Finally a win. Now win tomorrow to at least salvage the series. Hate losing to these bastards.

Graterol is probably better than Salty at this point, at least he could play some D. But they DFA'ed him.

So, Seth Beer, huh?

Winning a game seems like the hardest thing in the world for this team. Damn.

Yeah it's almost like circumstances change. What a concept. Fans were predicting a high 80's win total and a WC berth because that was the projection prior to the start of the season. After starting 1-9, that projection has dropped to 80-82, and could plummet now with JD out. If the Jays started 4-6 and people were talking about it, then you'd have a point. But 1-9 and making the playoffs would be historic. Talk of rebuilding is probably more reasonable in June/July when we see how the team does over a few months, but it's not absurd to talk about it in general. Team is old, their star is hurt, upper minors are barren, and window is closing/closed. Accept reality and change direction accordingly or live in a bubble.

The key to winning for the Jays in 2017: shut out the other team. No pressure, starting rotation.

That works if you're going to gut everything and start from scratch, which is probably the better way to go if they are trading Donaldson, but a team owned by Rogers probably isn't going to risk it. I'd be pleasantly surprised if they let Shatkins trade Donaldson if the team is out of it, but even if that were to happen, then they may want to keep Sanchez and Stroman to at least give fans a reason to show up to the park. It wouldn't shock me if the team keeps Donaldson, trades some vets at the deadline, and then tries to win again in 2018. Not because Shatkins wants it, but because Rogers wouldn't want revenue to plummet short term.

The only reason Benintendi might be realistic is because you'd be dealing with Dave Dumnbrowski. That man is AA on steroids when it comes to trading prospects. Otherwise, yeah, that's kind of far fetched.

Out of the "young players" on this team, I think Pillar and Osuna can/should be traded if they decide to rebuild. Don't need a closer on a rebuilding team (sign some cheap rec projects every year until you develop another one), and Pillar as he gets expensive and older will start to lose value as it's unlikely he will keep this level of D for the next 3 years, and he's a s*** hitter. If Pompey isn't completely broken, just put him at CF and let him sink or swim in that role until someone better comes along.

Yep, my thought was Donaldson for Conforto+more as well. Seems like a good fit.

Not only win but score about 10 runs. Baseball is a weird game.

Today's lineup is depressing as hell.

Keeping track of Vladdy and Bichette is going to be more exciting than watching the Jays play this year.

Tulo has one. Other than that, I think him and Bautista are it.

Travis might need to be demoted. He's been absolute s***. Not even "it's early struggles". I mean, "makes Goins look like a better player" levels of suckage.

Well if the team is s*** in 2017, then they'll probably be s*** in 2018 as well. They have no prospects coming up, except maybe Tellez, and won't have two of their current five starters next year. If the team is out of it in June, then trade everyone. I don't know if Rogers will allow a rebuild though, that's my only fear.

Yep. Counting this season, it's 3/60 for Martin and 4/78 for Tulo. With no young CA or SS within striking distance of the Majors right now, the Jays will probably just keep those two for vetrin presentz. Tulo seems like a dude who doesn't care if a team is rebuilding and he apparently hates being traded, plus he has a ntc, so not much that can be done there. Martin is f***ing unmovable at this point. No team in their right mind will touch that contract even if/when his bat comes around.

What could Shapiro have done differently? Edwin had a 69 wRC+ heading into tonight. Fowler has a 40 wRC+. The core is old and declining. Now their best player is hurt. Nothing would have changed that. Pearce is s***ing the bed, but still like the signing. If he declines too, then so be it, but it made sense at the time.

The Jays tanking like an NBA team.

I don't think anyone really *wants* it to happen. Winning a World Series is what everyone wants, or should want. But a bad start like this will get people talking about contingency plans, and that's all it is at this point. Shatkins are smart. They won't concede anything unless the on field product is bad enough to justify it. Some times you have to hit rock bottom to see positive change, and if the Jays are still bad two months from now, then that's all people are speculating on.

Yeah it will come down to what they do with Donaldson. Trading impending free agents to add more talent to the farm (if they are out of it in July) is one thing, but Donaldson is pretty much the franchise altering player. If they move him, the team is not going to be good for a few years at least. If they keep him, then they run the risk of losing him for a bag of chips after 2018 (or whatever the compensation is for losing a FA in the new CBA....3rd round pick???). Plus, if the team ends up being mediocre or trash in 2017, will it really get any better in 2018? What they do with JD will shape everything. I agree with your general point though. They got the team back in the playoffs in 2016 without touching any important prospect (they actually added to the farm in that time), and on paper put the team in a competitive spot for 2017 without losing any prospects either. I suspect they will go on a run soon, but whether it's enough of a run to a) be a legit threat for the playoffs, or be in a spot by July to avoid a Brian Cashman type of sell off, is the question.

The 22 year drought had enough .500 seasons that I really don't care to see another one. If they want to go on a massive run to be in the 90 win conversation, then I'll take that over any other alternative, but I'm not expecting that after a 1-8 start where the offence is picking up where they left off at the end of last season. I think the point is if the Jays are not going to make the playoffs, then it's better for them to be bad than to be average.

I'd say September 2016 was the start of it, they were still a good team prior to that. Regardless, AA built a great team in 2015 that probably should have won the World Series that year, but did it at the expense of the years after that. Shatkins/LaCava doesn't get enough credit for 2016's success as without the pitching moves they made (Estrada, Happ, and then Liriano in the 2nd half), that team would have been dead. They probably tried to extend the success against common sense, but s***, Fangraphs thought this was a mid/high-80's win team, so at least on paper it seemed like a good idea to try to win to keep the revenue pouring in while still building the farm. Unfortunately it looks like age might have finally caught up to the team as a whole.

Agreed. My fear is that they will go on a bit of a run to get back to .500 and then kind of stay there the entire year. That will accomplish nothing except keeping them close enough to the 2nd WC to not start selling pieces off.