glory

The best thing about Wall is that his BB/K rate looks great. The Jays have had a very hard time acquiring players who can draw walks at a high level so this is a good development for him. Time to move him up to AAA and see what he has. Still only 23. If his D in CF is even average, he might be something.

Forrest Wall went 3-5 with 3 doubles. He is now hitting .309/.411/.466 in 178 at bats. Drawing walks and not striking out a ton (18% K%). I have no idea what his defence is like, but this team needs OF prospects in the upper minors badly. Promote him (to AAA) and see what he's got. Once they make some trades and call Alford up mid season (it's going to happen), hopefully they move Wall up then. There's a lot of s*** in AAA (Teoscar, McKinney, Brito, Hanson). Can't have any of them block a potentially decent prospect.

Mid tier free agents and trading prospects for starters with 2+ years of control left. Pitching prospects are the scariest assets imaginable. Trade for vets whose arms are more likely to stay attached and hope to build an offence/defence that is full of elite young talent. It won’t be easy but that’s probably the avenue they go.

Well that will change in 2020. This team is looking like a 100 loss team, or damn close to it, and it should get worse when they start trading vetrins. This front office has been pretty damn good with the draft from the looks of it so next year's draft should be fun.

I think I'd prefer (good) hitting prospects in return for Giles+ only because you can't trust SP prospects. The best bet would be to get the absolute best package you can get regardless of position and then trade expendable prospect depth to acquire vet SPs. I think AA had the right idea in one respect which was consolidating prospects to get players of need, but he did it before the team was ready for it, which ended up causing the small contention window. The key here will be to do the same thing but only when the team is filled with what Shatkins perceives to be the next contending core. I just don't trust pitching prospects no matter how good.

The Super 2 deadline is such a farce. I can't believe half the stuff the MLBPA approved in CBA negotiations over the years/decades.

If they trade Stroman, the return better be amazing. I don't care if they trade Giles, who is elite, but RP's are RP's and they are the one commodity on the trade market that will always have value even in a depressed market where teams are reluctant to trade prospects. We should be able to do well in a Giles trade. Playoff teams love to stack up on elite relievers. To me, Stroman is someone you keep long term. He's good, wants to stay here, is embracing the young team of mostly s***** replacement level players (until the real prospects are all up), and is young enough to still be a contributor to any 2020-beyond success. They better be very careful with his situation. At this point they either have to extend him or trade him because they can't afford to be caught with their pants down and sell at 50 cents on the dollar (or 20 cents in JD's case) by holding on to a player for too long.

Agreed about not having much value at the time they were traded, but that should also be an indictment of the front office, who have routinely sold low aside from the Diaz trade. At the end of the day it's about value in versus value out. If the Jays are loading up on bubble 40 man roster depth when trading their best trade assets, then I don't see how we can view that positively. Even though Giles and Stroman have more trade value than anyone else Shatkins has traded, I'm actually dreading (hyperbole!) the returns. They have to prove that they can get good prospects in trades before I feel confident. At this point I'm 100% on Team Stroman, sign him up to an extension ASAP, but I get the sense he's being shopped heavy so it's about getting the best return possible.

The Osuna trade was good given the circumstances, but that same trade would have been considered disappointing had Osuna not been involved in DV/legal issues at the time. They have a chance to make up for it though with a Giles trade, which hopefully yields at least one impact prospect. Return for Giles + Perez + Paulino might end up being a net positive, possibly significant net positive (depends on what the return for Giles is).

I think Thornton is a multi inning reliever long term, so I'd rate Borucki's ceiling as a SP higher, but his injury history is serious enough to cause some pause.

Stroman and Giles both need to be traded for legit top prospects. Anything less and extending them becomes a more value driven option.

I must have missed this, but where the hell is David Paulino? It says he was placed on the 7 day injured list on 5/7, but no word since.

I think baseball will always exist, but its relevancy is definitely dropping, with no signs of it climbing back any time soon, if ever again.

My point was Shapiro has said publicly that he believes in supplementing through free agency, not using it to build. In other words, he’d rather develop Gerrit Cole and sign 2016 Happ than sign Cole to a monster contract. That approach will work if Shatkins succeeds in developing internally but it also means it’s not Rogers holding the team back from signing expensive free agents. It will be the front office. The bright side is it has never been easier to supplement through free agency (see 2019 Twins). Bad news is we don’t have anything to supplement, and probably won’t for a few years.

It won't be Rogers that prevents the Jays from getting free agents, it will be Shatkins. They do not like free agency, and I think Shapiro has said as much publicly. The biggest test for Atkins will be when he starts trading prospects for vets. In the current market, free agency is cheap, and vets with 1-2 years of control left are not as expensive to acquire in trades. That's where a quick turnaround could be possible, but if he's planning on trading Stroman, then the rotation will need practically 5 new starters unless you believe Thornton can stick there long term and Sanchez can throw 2 innings without his fingers falling off.

Grichuk will go on his usual hot streak in the summer when the Jays are like 20 games under .500, so at least there's that.

I'd be thrilled if he turns into a 3 WAR player. 5-7 is very unrealistic, even in a best case scenario. They guessed right with Smoak, so I'll trust their judgment, but players with BB%'s that low (and K%'s that high) are usually not consistently good, unless he turns into Javy Baez.

I said at the time, I don't trust a guy with his BB/K rate long term, especially since we have years of data to show that he kinda is what he is. A streaky hitter with power and a ~2 WAR type. You don't give $50 mil to those types in a market where 2 win players are signing minor league deals. Who knows maybe he proves me wrong, I hope he does, but I don't think it was a smart move. Surplus potential is limited unless his bat takes off.

So instead of acknowledging what I feel are bad moves, it's best to wear blinders and pretend everything is great? Only the latter makes someone a fan? That's warped thinking, and you are being way too literal if you took "dread" as a serious statement.

The Grichuk extension was questionable at the time, and even if he ends up with his usual summer hot streak to get a 2 ish WAR, that's still not worth $50 mil. I'm going to dread seeing Stroman and Giles go, while having to sit and watch Grichuk for the next five years.

I agree about Stroman. I think they have to re-sign him. The pitching in the system aside from Pearson looks pretty bad/unspectacular, and we have a 3+ WAR starter who wants to stay in Toronto and is embracing the rebuild as far as helping young players. He absolutely should be extended, as long as he's not asking for an insane number. As you said, Giles can be moved for the right haul since he's a reliever, and I think a lot of our SP depth in AAA will end up in the pen and might be potential closers (SRF, Paulino, Perez). However, the return has to be right. I don't want to trade guys just to get 40 man roster depth. Either get real prospects or improve the big league team by keeping the good big leaguers. What I might do with Sanchez is just move him to the pen and trade him next trade deadline as a RP. It might be too late for that now (plus he has a big enough ego to make a stink about not starting), but next year in his FA year just make him the set up man. He'll probably be a better trade asset even as a rental that way than he would be as a SP who can't go 2 starts without his finger nail falling off. I'd also look to trade some 40 man roster depth, and some fringe type prospects for more MLB help on the pitching side. Arb eligible inning eaters like Tanner Roark could have helped the 2018 rotation and could have been acquired for very little.

If we are trading our best assets for guys like Happ, then I think I'd rather just hold on to Giles and Stroman (extensions), and see if we can contend from 2020-beyond. We don't know what the next CBA will look like, but extensions for vets prior to them hitting free agency are looking a lot more reasonable. Unless the Jays get blown away with offers (see what the Yankees got for Andrew Miller as a comparison), then I'm not sure trading them even helps us. So far I trust this team's drafting more than I do their trading. Jays will have no financial commitments aside from Grichuk from 2021. I think re-signing some actual good players on the team should be on the table at this point. I probably wouldn't have said that six months ago, but the trade market doesn't sound all that appealing anymore.

Gaviglio’s arm will fall off after this season, if not earlier.

Sign Stroman to an extension. I’m going to keep saying this until it happens. Don’t be spending $50 mil on Grichuk and not paying Stroman who we need a lot more and is much better.

Playing Biggio out of position because "who cares" is stupid as hell. You want to develop these players as best as possible. That means playing them at their best position, or developing them in the position you want them to be in long term. Vlad might not be a great defensive player but the club clearly does not want to move him to 1B yet so play him at third. If Biggio is a 2B long term, then play him there. If he has versatility to play elsewhere, then great, but don't play him everywhere just so Drury and Sogard could get playing time. That's a ridiculous waste of a rebuilding season. If anything, play Drury and Sogard out of position. They don't matter in the long run. Biggio does.