BigCecil

Honestly......after an initial hot streak Juan has been absolutely beyond aw ful. Cmon Kawa! Good AB

What about Hech...he will be up soon....oh ya..forget he is now in MIA.

I cant see any package that makes trading Edwin away make any sense with that now proven production at that price through 2016. Unless its a scorched earth rebuild for top prospects and middle road MLB talent to fill the holes it would make for now, but we are in a half pregnant organizational strategy at present so that won't happen....yet. After being so optimistic this season(apparently overly) I now see pain ahead...with the only real bright spot being potential young arms developing.

For the money, speed and D you have to go with Gose and sit him against really tough LHP. I was hoping for continued advancement from Colby but he is 2012 and continued regression on D imo. NO WAY on QO. He would take that all day long and we can use the payroll room.

Sanchez has been great so far but his minor league command - BB and pitch count issues have yet to show up. Yet some people have him in the rotation or suggested as a closer already. 15 innings people. Maybe they wont show up and he will be an immaculate MLB conception but we can't count on it. We don't even know what Stroman is going to be yet really. He has been great for the most part but we have seen him blown out a few times and less LHH swings at that wipe out breaking ball.

Love Casey but since he has taken over in 2012 consistent decline in his Velocity...he used to touch 92/93. His K rate is scary this year. He is often injured and has history of arm issues post TJ. No QO and team friendly extension (which wont happen) is only option. It does scare me though losing him after the train wrecks we ran out there to "close" for so many years prior to him assuming that roll. Coco Cordero anyone?

Who gives a s***? Jose was all over AA - lauding him for MIA and RA deals saying "Alex kept his word to me". This org gave him a chance to play every day. After one great season this org signed a 5 year deal with him that makes him very rich so he can go sell f***ing Booster Juice too. If he wants to "demand a trade" now throwing a tantrum - We owe him nothing. I like Jose and he has been very solid - but instead of potentially demanding trade he should do something constructive and hit better in leveraged situations.

I don't think its insane but i get your point because its addition by subtraction. There is no way I part with Stro for 1.33 years of Price (at time), Less sold on Hutch. Post TJ its hard to read what his value/ceiling will be. Its moot anyway...the ONLY reason you would deal even just Hutch in Price deal is if you think this year or next his additional wins propel you to post season, and at this point I don't have a clue where AA and Beeson are taking this ship...and neither do they.

Lol. Ya right. It's very hard. All the other teams have fared better than us on that score for 20 yrs in the division. It's so hard in fact that this was our year when it was weakened by injury. Wildcards make it easier but it's still hard. Which is why your point " we were close this year", to suggest we are some upward trajectory, is an irrelevant one. 2015 will be much diff in al east. Red Sox won WS last yr and this yr they are last...case in point.

You are partly right but don't kid yourself. Turf can cost time on a career which costs players money and some don't like living and playing here.

I listen to Baghdad Bob for the macabre factor mostly. Some of the callers are awful. I can't believe it was Juan for Headley. Lawrie or not it was a piece we could have used if the price was realistic. His D alone is such a upgrade and put lawrie at 2nd to finish the year. His obp has been solid.

JPR? Been fan since day 1. Also early days of the expos. Grass is one factor for free agents. Winning and org direction is as important to offset the "in canada" factor. You will recall their was a time we could sign top FAs - we were on a roll for a long time - 7 years.

When will be " make or break" for this org and what does that mean? Is 30 yrs without playoffs going to do it? 3 decades and not 2? I'm all for not being chicken littles but this is an aging core with a lot of unproven and fragile pieces next 2 yr. and our comp gets better again IMO. 2014 was the year.

cmon Jose....seems like Melky gets 2 hits every game

Agree it never hurts to see what is on table. Think about what Santana, Jiminez and Arroyo got this off season. Mark B isn't really much of an overpay on 1 year, if you need a LH SP with experience and durability. Reyes would be worth more if he supported moving to 2nd imo. He has had a solid offensive year so far. I actually think there will be interest in them...tough to say what we would have to eat.

Dude. Seriously? lol. We needed a 2nd basemen for THIS year and didn't get one...so now you think that's an automatic for us this off season? Explain that to me. We were close? Sort of. Our rotation needs addressing....our pen has been poor and we lose Casey. The rest of the division will look very diff in 2015. This team wasn't built to be close anyway. AA rolled to win with MIA and RA deal. The payroll is plenty to win selecting the right talent. More luck on health? Lawrie has played 60% of his career games. He cant stay healthy. We lose a hitter that faces RHP only - Lind. And we lose Edwin for a protracted period. Ok- that's a tough assignment. But O's have weathered loss of Weiters and extended periods of Machado who had a 6 + WAR last year. Not to mention Davis crashed from 2013. Others faced worse injuries in our division. NYY entire rotation was wiped out. I guess you think Bosox, Rays, NYY wont address this season? Next year is a whole new ballgame and "we were close" this year will have little to do with it. We will see how the young arms develop. Hitters will adjust and we will see over a longer period how they perform. Far from a slam dunk. I don't want to be pessimistic and there is some room for optimism for sure, but I think you are sucking back way too much AA Kool-Aid to think this is all according to plan.

True. Morrow and Romero not so much - Escobar was extended and then moved.

Im not embarrassed. Im confused and really pissed off. I have no idea of the direction of mgm with this team anymore and we had a real shot THIS YR we f***ed up twice - 2013 off season and again at deadline. Not as optimistic as some on "young cheap rotation of future".

This idea depends on where you are going organizationally and what you get back obviously. Hard to replace that .900+ OPS in 3 spot. If you are throwing in the towel for rebuild around young arms maybe or if you can get some significant young cheap contributing talent to offset the loss? Otherwise 2 more years at that price for Jose makes no sense to move. I have no idea where Jays mgm is going with this team right now. They are half pregnant with no clear direction which frustrates me most.

For all the s*** RA takes - I agree with this. Especially after the SP market established this past off season.

I was optimistic on this team and on AA for a long time. Now I am totally pissed off at off season and deadline...to make the moves we did with MIA and RA taking the payroll up to big levels and trading top prospects, but then not make the moves needed makes no sense? Injuries are part of the game = Machado, Weiters and Davis falling off a cliff from 2013. Stro, Sanchez, Hutch and Norris etc - we will see. Reason to be excited but we have seen way too little of them to know what they really will be. Our comp will add this off season and big arms will return - imo this was our year and we f***ed it up. I can live with another AA year...but I will need the rage/vent thread daily Im sure.

Math doesn't work - especially with the unaddressed holes we had prior to Edwin and Lind going down still existing. Some are way ahead of themselves on Stro and Sanchez for so few MLB innings. From 5 gms up to not going to happen at wildcard.

Hard to not be very impressed with Sanchez short body of work with us. Same with Stro. Norris in Sept will be interesting. Im pleasantly amazed at how well Sanchez has done so far, given his command in Minors. Reason for some optimism.

Yup. From cant miss top ML prospect to ceiling of MLB RHP long man mop up...

2011 - Romero, Cecil, Marcum and Morrow...with phenom and AA pitcher of the year Drabek in the wings... Our young affordable controllable rotation of the future.