BigCecil

Exactly lol. Right out of the “Ten Little In….er..Indigenous People” movie based on her novel.

This off season feels like an Agatha Christie novel as one after another just gets killed off.

Happy for Teo. Going from being the guy who almost killed Altuve in HOU, not knowing if we would have a MLB career, to family financial security through arb year payments and this deal. No matter what happens with the rest of his career after 2024, they are set for life. The deferred salary has lower NPV but its essentially a pension plan for them. I think he will have a huge year with LAD anyway and it won't be his last deal. Good for them.

Chris Black is fine, but he was touting last year that Manoah had found it and would be back to '22 or close to it. Grain of salt. Sean Casey has been singing IKF's praises too. Nice highlight reel @ 3B If he plays very good to elite D and is a 90 ish bat, heads won't explode. If our other mainstays rebound and we get another bat or two.

Very hard with that huge leg kick to maintain elite chase and whiff rates as you age and have to cheat. JD chase rate was 90th percentile in 2015 and below 30th in ’23. Jose’s decline was similar. Big Papi had that huge leg kick but somehow broke the aging curve with a 163 wRC+ at 40 in 2016. Then retired. Looking at Harper and his stats gives you some hope with Vlad. They both had elite offensive seasons mixed with some anomalous stinker seasons, for them.

Technically I believe you have an ape avatar and not a monkey? Is that correct self appointed Sheriff?

It’s like Y2K although for this there really will be chaos and anarchy in the streets.

I wouldn’t be surprised if between now and ST if we signed Joc and stuck OR if they pulled a monster impact deal none of us saw coming.

Not sure bud. Didn't really look. Bunch of circular endless FO and state of the nation arguments that go round and round daily, when all will soon enough be revealed in terms of this off season and 2024. Its a big year or two for us. At the EOD, if the ownership is happy with the financial & team perception/performance, the FO sticks. If they feel the business is trending negatively financially & perception wise, sacrifice (s) will be offered up for change - much like Ross did when he canned Buntoyo. Fairness doesn't enter into it. Like Tessio said in the Godfather just before he got whacked "Tell Michael it was only business - I always liked him".

There are good reasons for the Ignore list bud.

On the other hand because they don't spend big money like you point out the Jays did/can, they need those arm assets to move as they lose years of control to restock. I think in both cases they value them and take care to protect them.

Performance viewed by ownership vs performance viewed by fans are mostly 2 different things. Often there is a correlation eventually between the two. Thats why Execs get rope to deal with that reality and either stick or go.

One caveat thats important is how ownership vs fans measure performance is two different things. The two usually eventually correlate, which is why Execs get rope. As for - all we can do is pray for projections to be accurate this year - thats lame fantasy league s***. The GM, ownership and CEO can go make deal(s) and live with those consequences if they don't like the bet on steamer. Or they can roll with the projections. Ultimately they are accountable either way being in charge since 2016 ish. The position we are in, regardless of how you view it, they put us in it.

Ok Terminator. I thank you for your scolding and sage advice. Maybe it was a touch of a cheap shot...not that I'm above those.

Lol. Ya, I've also been a CEO IPO'ing companies. Co-founded 3 companies I bought then sold. President and CEO of others I still own a piece of. Done lots of media speak. Dealt with US sub prime meltdown. Asian flu. Argentina devaluing their currency. Bre-X market impact. Russian invading Ukraine covid. etc etc etc. All stuff few expected. Luck plays in every business and in politics I've ever been in, Baseball is the same. You have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good. Wander Franco says hello. At the end of the day execs get some quarter for unforeseen challenges, but ultimately at some point they get judged on performance. No escape. Sometimes its fair and sometimes its not.

Picky picky. Don't blame me for Ross's dumb ass statements. Ya, we all know Sanchez wasn't going to fetch the King's jewels. Hey the Derrick Fisher stuff all turned out to give this Board some good yucks and I listed both fames and shames not previously mentioned.

Exactly lol. The irony I'm ashamed to admit is I actually remember Brownie a few years back posting quoting some of Shapiro's media comments that teams didn't need to be a "window" teams if you had the "waves" coming up from the farm making them perpetual contenders. "Windows" just weren't necessary anymore. He then proceeded to name a bunch of picks and prospects who were to be those "waves" that have since got dealt away or died on the vine. Today we learn from him that we should have never paid any attention to any of it anyway because it was always just media ********. Ya, sure often CEOS and GMs do media speak in all businesses. We all know that. That doesn't mean they won't be held accountable for forecasts missed and performance. And every business to some degree is affected by luck - good or bad.

lol. thats enough skirmishing for me. Have a good day fellow Jays fans.

Brownie is just so worldly and all seeing. Really quite impressive what he can accomplish from a message board about the business of baseball. Pure wisdom.

Ya man, for all my fandom imperfections, I've been a fan of the Expos and then Jays since the 70's. Thats never ever going to change. I am always happy to be wrong if something good happens to the Jays that I criticized and I'll never hope for something bad to happen so i can be "right".

I disagree that they didn't pivot. in 2017 they said we were 2-3 years away from waves of impact talent on the roster and not just 2-3 players. They didn't say 20 years. But i do agree the investment logically should pay off for decades. I don't view the increase in payroll cynically. In fact they deserve some credit for the pivot. We have been essentially in contention since 2020. That didnt happen by accident. Thats why i think, despite criticisms, they have mid to good. I can even appreciate the argument that they have been top tier, even if I dont agree.

They went on to say the waves would ensure that we didn't need to be a "window" team. Perpetual contention would be our thang. If you want to be generous to the FO you could argue since 2020 we have been in "contention". If you want to quibble with that you can argue its not happened they way they said it should. They deserve some credit either way. This is a window team now any way you slice it, and the next 2 years will really test this FO.

Thats ******** and you know it on the "6 year old" sound bite. Thats just trite. All the investments they made in the facilities and the pitching lab. for the first 2-3 years that was mostly what was discussed by this FO. That and coveting control of young players. That was their whole schtick. Its morphed because it didn't work out well and they pivoted to pillow deals, high payroll and signing players like Ryu and Springer. That Shapiro news conference from Aug 31, 2017 will always stand out because it was also the opp Shapiro took to take shots at AA for not developing enough players and trading picks and prospects. So its fair game to assess their record too with the same critical eye.

One can play the Wall of Fame & Shame all day long given how long Shatkins has been here now. They have been a mid to good front office, but you would have to be on crack or some kind of twisted wanna be shill to say they have met their public pronouncements from 2017 on development of "waves" of impact MLB talent. Which is a hugely important success evaluation and determination factor. Personally I was excited for this FO because this is what they said and what I thought they would deliver. I don't care about us spending Rogers money, and lots of it, but I dont want us to be the org that HAS TO overpay for aging FA talent saddled with a bunch of aging players and s***** back ends of deals. A few more fames and shames : - Tanner Roark signing - Morales signing jumping gun - Grichuk extension - LGJ cheap signing - Berrios was a 1 WAR SP in '22. Kooch sucked in '22. - Espy for Pearce who we had to dump anyway - Bo - Atkins and "42 years of control" for a bag of dogshit - Pillow deal for Semien one of most unsuccessful ever. Shame our pen was ass and Hand. We missed playoffs by a game.

McLanahan in particular is a massively valuable arm bud. I think they care about the health of their assets. They just produce so many it seems like maybe they chew through them as if it’s an endless resource.