BigCecil

This is where we are at. Shapiro is adept at setting up a foil in Ross. Ross has a very rigid baseball operations approval threshold on asset management, as well as anything material over certain values, that affect financial signings & payroll/projections/revenue/budget that good ol' Shappy has sold to the Board as the strategy and approach each fiscal year. Anything material beyond a low threshold in baseball operations requires Shapiro review and approval, for obvious reasons. Standard in in large corp business. The CEO is where the buck stops. Its a popular myth on this board that this is not the case. At this point, I'd like to see them both go, but I would settle for Ross right now. The reason for this is the paramount importance of having more clinical objective new eyes deal with the transition out of Bo, Vlad, Jano, Kooch era this year and next. What I actually think will happen is the worst of all worlds. Nobody will go except JS. They will 2017 it and try and milk a withering bunch to death trying to gloss over the situation and keep the new renos full, and the appearance of success. I think this team will still WIN 85 games or close to it - in other words half pregnant between "competitive" and teetering on a rebuild.

Bo last 3 seasons = 4.9, 4.9 and 4 WAR. He has not been an issue really. Everyone including the FO needs to get over Vlad and 2021. Its 2024. He isn't that player now and may never be again. The last 2 seasons have been steady decline. We have to make some decisions and deal with it. Its not easy, but neither is a Wander Franco being suspended by MLB for the Rays. Whether its injury, free agency, performance, prospects not panning out, or freak tragedies like Jose Fernandez's speedboat accident, teams have to adapt and adjust to reality.

I did not know that. Thanks for explaining. His current wRC+ is 130. I'd take the under on 105 for the season all said and done. If he moves to LF with KK back in CF more, 3.5 or under I'd make a bet on. Solid season and a good step up from 2.1 in 2023.

lol. Y'all knows WAR isn't linear for the season. I'll gladly take 3 though.

We had 3, and then there was one. And that one was fat with a slow bat.

He has like a 2.00 xFIP 3.00 FIP and 15k/9 but almost anything hit in air has gone out - hence 6 ERA. His BB rate is normal for his career. It should normalize over more innings. After a 7 year run everything has gone pear shaped for the Astros in '24 so far.

This thread joins the legion of counter threads to "The Positive Thread"

He should have been extended long before his walk year.

Even Gillick got dubbed "Stand Pat" when the late 80's Jays were relatively competitive but couldn't get over the hump. He made a risky big deal trading for Alomar & Carter which shook it up. Made a lot of other solid moves as well and impact picks like Olerud came up. When Alomar finally hit that HR off Eck it all shifted. He even got Fernandez back to play SS in '93 for another WS ring. Point being rolling back the same team with JT and IKF never made a lot of sense.

Hang in Jay. It’s rough times and people are venting in a period where some difficult decisions might be here quicker than we anticipated. We are all just passionate Jays and baseball fans.

No. Its time. The Jays need to clean house to bring in new objective leadership to lead the transition from the Bo & Vlad era. Sooner the better. Thanks Mark...we'll always have the cup holders.

Jul 20, 2006 TORONTO -- After Shea Hillenbrand wrote on the clubhouse bulletin board that the "ship was sinking," Toronto Blue Jay manager John Gibbons challenged him to a fight. "He challenged me to a fight, and wanted me to get up and punch him in the face," Hillenbrand told FAN 590 in Toronto.

22nd in ERA and 28th in FIP team pitching. Berrios has been both good and extremely lucky (4.02 FIP and 1.44 ERA). Kooch has been very good and Gausman coming back to old self. Hound not so much. This is an inconvenient truth.

Just tuning in after a kids ball day. Looks like Manoah was nails and the Nats D continues to save our souls.

Honestly, even if you loathed JPR, comparing his tenure results to the current luxury tax Jays in the wild card era is dumb.

The Jays are not just a TOR team. They are a Canada wide National team and fan base. TV is a big part of their appeal and revenue. Ive seen kids in Pond Inlet Nunavut and Inuvik, NWT proudly wearing their Jays hats and jerseys. Thats why so many western fans invade SEA Jays games. I go to the RC more than most non GTO based fans. Maybe average 10 or more games a year from Calgary, if I like the team and they are exciting. I don't care much about the fan experience there off the field. Did I suffer at all in the 2015 playoffs Game 5 from the stadium fan experience? The s***** RC was shaking. Electric. I would go watch the Jays at Exhibition Stadium like I used to, if the on the field product was great. I havent drank for 22 years. I could give a s*** about all the new places to drink $15 beers. The food is still not great, even if improved. I'm just not there for the party. When Shatkins came into the picture, I was excited but it never ever about stadium renos, and it still isn't for me. Rogers is a massive corp, and can rent other brains for stadium renovations, other than a baseball CEO. IF the product is not good, the new car smell will wear off the renos quickly in relative terms, and will be very quiet in 2-3 years. Lived exactly that reality in the late 90s. I give Shapiro more baseball credit for the investments made in the development facilities they promoted so much, even though their development results are mediocre. There is tangible baseball logic in those investments and we all hope they pay off.

I had too much anxiety to watch the OT and was PVRing. I finally got the mustard to look when a notification popped up on my phone. I opened it with trepidation. Said Pasta scored early. I was in shock. Thought the Leafs had our number. As timid as I was about it I can't even dunk on anyone. I did take in the pleasure of drinking tears listening to Leafs Talk and Leafs commentators for some time post game - Bunkis and the like. There are legit questions and conclusions that aren't hard to make about this Leafs team, core and FO. I actually thought Matthews got away with a trip on setting up their goal. It was a light touch but enough in the skates that he went down. Nobody else seems to think so.

I think LTBF has hacked this account. Mods.

KK returneth and seals the game. Jays fans exhale. Nice!

Vogelbach has been a nice little pick up so far. Very versatile too.

Very lucky its only 4-2 and not 4-4. Abrams got most of that, but to the wrong part of the field.

I never wanted Ross gone until last off season(as much as his Ned Flanders persona irked me), but it should have been done then. I always felt we could do a lot worse than Ross, and that is still the case. He was not bad at this job at all and made some great moves. I was not as enamored with this off season as much of the Shatkinite Cult was. Middling, at best, results. This team needs fresh eyes to lead into this period dealing with end of the Bo & Vlad era, and just changing the Manager again won't do it. Tear the band aid off now.

Most of the "media talk" is strained carrots. Its all milquetoast. It all has to be taken with huge grains of salt. Shapiro, Atkins and JS all can't just go hit the mic and say what they really think, for good reasons. Which makes it insufferable to listen to for me. It would create a media and fan frenzy that is a counter productive distraction. So they will talk in platitudes and positivity even in the face of a hurricane. Also, it just never does any good to throw people under the bus in public. Its good TV but accomplishes nothing. Some fans still think someone tipping over a clubhouse table is the tonic for fixing Bo's 57 wRC+. It is not.

When Corbin shoves against you its a - we have reached rock bottom pivot point. Nowhere to go up but up, starting today.

I don't blame Schneider and the coaches for any of this, even if he is unimpressive. Buntoyo was worse in my view. I mean you want to change them again...sure. He is just playing the defective cards he has been given. The FO and the players themselves have much more impact on the overall outcomes.