TwistedLogic

Did you not read the first paragraph? Go back to my post, I edited out the quote and colored it red at the bottom of the post. "They were right. Beeston says he would have hit the roof had he known" Everything Beeston is saying is a narration to Davidi, after the trade happened. It is clearly outlined that Beeston never heard about the deal being off until it was completed. At the time of the trade, it was Tinnish, etc reminding AA that Beeston would be pissed, and Beeston later on confirming essentially, "yes I would have been pissed, you can't kill the deal for John Buck".

I don't understand what you mean? Reaching for an argument? You said that the deal was off and Beeston is the one that got them to revisit it and complete the deal. All I've said is that isn't true, and it isn't. Anthopoulos arranged the deal, Anthopoulos agreed to the terms, Anthopoulos temporarily decided to call it off because he felt like he was betraying Jeff Mathis, and Anthopoulos himself went back and completed the deal. Beeston had nothing to do with that trade other than arranging for it to be approved by Nadir and Pelley.

That is not what I said. Beeston knew about the deal, but he did not know that the deal was ever "off". He never heard that the deal received a hiccup and was almost shut down because of Jeff Mathis/John Buck, until after the deal was completed. You don't need to wait till you get home, I just snap-shotted the proof myself: http://gyazo.com/fd9ae3e5a4c52d6484748352668a78f2.png http://gyazo.com/9a040abbab5f4196108d3dbe2f797dbb.png http://gyazo.com/cc9da4b8cb9a9bdafafaf50cd6afb1ef.png "Beeston says he would have hit the roof had he known"

Your point is still incorrect. Even if the deal was temporarily off, it never so much as reached Beeston's ears. Beeston found out about it later.

As far as I know that is completely incorrect. AA never said he was going to cancel the deal. After the trade was completed, AA told Beeston that he almost dropped the deal when it came to the Mathis segment of it, and Beeston at that point said he would have been crazy, and Beeston himself would have been pissed had that happened. None of us have to think like a human when it comes to these things, but when you read about why Anthopoulos didn't want to let go of Mathis, and you get the words coming from him, you understand that any decent human would have had the exact same reservations and hesitations.

It doesn't matter. Every GM that people can't stop sucking off gets full credit for his drafts, AA should be treated the same. Especially because AA is the one that put together that entire scouting department. Last year was a questionable draft until he signed Brentz and Tellez. Those signings made it one of the better drafts in the majors, especially with the pick that we punted to 2014, the better draft. My comment about his retention of EE was when everyone wanted him DFA'd the second time.

He did. Lawrie, Rasmus, Santos, Delabar, Escobar, they were all young and controllable, especially with his extensions. Show me a list of the GMs that would have said no to the Marlins trade. We can s*** on it as much as we want in retrospect, but acting like that was a bad move at the time is nuts. That was Reyes and Johnson. It looks terrible now because Johnson amounted to nothing and Reyes suffered a freak injury, but you can't pin that on AA. We have no idea how much influence Beeston and Rogers have had on AA since the Marlins trade and whether or not he was told to make or not make the moves that succeeded it. What we know is that this organization as a whole is still in massively better shape than JP's Blue Jays were ever at any time. Again as I said, there is a lot of criticism and distaste towards AA that is completely justified right now, but pushing that to such an extreme as saying JPR was a better GM or did better for this team than AA, pardon my French, is just f***ing stupid. If AA gets fired right now, his successor will inherit a far superior organization than the one AA did.

Exactly. AA retained EE when the moronic internet fanbase was rioting for him to DFA him. Rasmus is far from his only significant trade acquisition as well. As I said, he also acquired Lawrie, Morrow, Escobar, Santos and Delabar beyond Rasmus, and none of them cost anything.

JP Ricciardi is the guy that signed the BJ Ryan and Vernon Wells contracts, the guy who left AA the rank 28 farm system in baseball and the guy that fielded teams that were legitimately mediocre for several years. AA took that farm system and made it top 3 within two years, absolutely pimping the draft system. He acquired Rasmus, Escobar, Lawrie, Morrow, Santos and Delabar for pennies on the dollar, and has probably made one of the greatest series of contract extensions we've ever seen. Both of his last two teams have remained competitive until midway through the season until the sheer mind-f***ingly stupid amount of bad luck has caught up to them. I completely understand being upset with AA but the amount of blind, irrational hate for him on this board is getting ridiculous.

Add me to the list under Alex, this thread is ridiculous lol.

I think I'd want AA around if this team crashed, burned and went into another rebuild lol. Fire him when it's time to contend again.

It was today http://i.imgur.com/py2PxcN.gif. Funnily enough, I logged in almost right after he sent that. But remember guys, he "requested" the ban,

http://gyazo.com/2b904b40ee2a7976fc0d943e58e95be1.png http://i.imgur.com/py2PxcN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/py2PxcN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/py2PxcN.gif How many of you all got one of these? Or am I special?

I don't see it that way. I think it's him just not liking the trade rumours and wishing he'd had a no-trade clause in his contract. That being said, that's another reason why FA's don't want to come here, the Jays don't offer no-trade clauses.

No way he gets that kind of money; at least I would be incredibly surprised if he did. He's tied to draft-pick compensation.

You know what I was thinking, how come Mozeliak's name never comes up when people are talking about the best GMs in baseball? You always hear names like Friedman, Dombrowski, Daniels, Epstein, I hear very little praise for the guy that's built the absolute best organization top-to-bottom. The Cardinals are a f***ing juggernaut. Holliday, Bourjos, Craig, Carpenter, Peralta, Jones, Adams, Molina, Wong/Ellis Miller, Wainwright, Wacha, Lynn, Garcia They literally don't have a hole anywhere on their team, and have arguably the best farm system in the majors to pair with it.

Why?

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And who said that the "rumors" about Bautista, EE and Rasmus are true? Did Anthopoulos confirm their legitimacy?

If I remember correctly (I could have this backwards), Aviles and Gomes were traded for Esmil Rogers before Izturis was signed.

Halladay and Syndergaard. Mike Trout probably, since I'd learn that he was up for trade and the Blue Jays weren't the ones to get him. I was sort of devastated over the Fister trade. On the current roster, the one's that'd hurt me the most to lose are Rasmus, Stroman and Lawrie. That's about it. Greatest post in the history of this site.

She's gorgeous. Hope they stay happy and together. Good on him.

I'm saying that the data for younger players will look high because most of the sample for that age group is attributed to high-end prospects that get early promotions (Trout, Harper, Lawrie, etc). It makes hitters as a whole look like the production from age 21 to 25 stays sort of stagnant, when in reality, that isn't exactly true. Most players aren't even good enough to be in the majors at 21. When you group all MLB hitters together, you're getting the great production from guys like Trout and Harper in the 21-23 age group, and then you're getting guys like Arencibia and Thames come in at 24, 25 years old and dragging the average of those numbers down. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Trouts aren't improving with age, it just means that the older they get, the bigger the sample becomes, and the more mediocre talent and journeyman get added into that sample. They should refine their study and compare players that are similar to one-another in terms of when they enter the league and how their wOBA or WAR looks from year to year, as opposed to lumping the entire league into one number. Look at any star player's fangraphs page and you'll see this study debunked several times. If guys come into the league already at their best, and only decline from there on out, why do you see players do things like this so often: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9847&position=OF 2010: 3.5 WAR 2011: 5.4 WAR 2012: 6.8 WAR 2013: 8.2 WAR You're telling me this guy isn't improving and reaching a peak? http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1744&position=1B/3B Stagnating between 5-6 WAR in his earlier seasons, with a few 2.x WAR seasons thrown in. Now he's transcending the 7-WAR plateau and getting near 8 wins. The league as a whole might be more top-heavy now what with all the phenomenal new players coming in at young ages, and the league as a whole might be weaker in the 25+ age range, but that doesn't mean that player's no longer reach a peak before declining. That almost doesn't make sense. You would need data that is far more specific than what these guys have done to determine that.

This is the first trade offer I've seen on these boards this offseason where I could legitimately see myself giving up Rasmus and being somewhat comfortable with it. Only problem is that it's been said several times, there's no way in hell the Pirates are going to give you Walker for Lind. It's even been reported that they asked the Jays for Lind and when the Jays mentioned Walker, the Pirates essentially hung up.

I guessed 4/32, so I was off by only 0.5M AAV. And if it turns out the Jays didn't atleast offer that much, and end up going into the season with Izturis/Goins, it's going to look pretty f***ing bad. I'm hoping that the only reason Jays weren't in on him (seemingly, at least) is because they have a hopefully reasonable plan for 2B already.