jaysblue

Don't take what this team says literally haha.

Gotta heckle Happ at the next home game behind the bullpen.

Howie Kendrick OTB. Also, Ian Kennedy is close to being moved likely.

lol

So are you saying that the Jays shouldn't have given up on guys like Chien Ming Wang last season after only 27 innings? He was solid down in Triple A. Chavez was a fringe arm, that mostly spent his career in the bullpen. Sure it would have been nice to hang onto him, but even Oakland never used him as a starter in 2013 when he was there. It's just irrational to say back in 2012 that you thought Chavez was going to be a solid Major League starter, when there was very little evidence suggesting that. Just using Rogers as an example. His rate stats were excellent with Cleveland in 2012 and he s*** the bed here. Just goes to show you that some guys could pan out and some guys don't. So far in 3 starts, Chavez has. Lets see if he makes it to 20-25 starts this season. Was it a painful memory last season when Chavez was pitching as a mop-up guy out of the A's bullpen? Sure mistakes are made, but there are so many examples of teams catching lightning in a bottle with a vet. Look at Josh Towers for an example. Baltimore then made a mistake for letting him go, since he was a decent arm for the Jays for those three seasons. Letting go of Towers went on to haunt them since he posted a 4.2 WAR in 2005. The Pirates are probably still banging their heads on letting Jose Bautista go, and even the Rangers probably for trading Chris Davis, but stuff like that happens. You can't go and say two-three years after and say "oh I knew Jose Bautista was going to hit 50 HR's in a season back in 2007/2008 or that Chris Davis was going be in the running for MVP when he was struggling with Texas" after the fact. I'm not making broad extrapolations. Chavez didn't have any success here in Toronto at the big league level. He was a fringe pitcher so I'm asking where does it warrant him getting an extended look in the rotation? Then you can make that argument about almost anyone. Sometimes players get an opportunity and run with it; sometimes they don't. Especially for those fringe minor league/replacement level vets, they can't afford to struggle early once they get an opportunity since then that stamps their ticket out of town. How was it bungled? He never panned out here in Toronto and who would have said he would? Sure it looks like a mistake if Chavez goes on to post a 3-4 WAR season in Oakland this season. Though it's easy to say that now in 2014 compared to in 2012. I'm all on the Jesse Chavez bandwagon, especially after I claimed him in my 30-team dynasty league. Though I find it hard to believe that you saw this coming back in 2012 and are saying the Jays made a huge mistake in letting go of a fringe MLB player at the time. It's easy to say that two-three years after the fact. Let's wait and see him make more than 3 starts this season.

Carlos Villanueva was pretty solid for a 12-13 start stretch in 2012 until he had two huge blowups at the end of the September that season. Does that make Carlos Villaneuva a great starter? And this was in the Majors, not Triple A mind you.

How things change so quickly.

Junior Lake is a stud, why are you trading him?

Your the toughest person to trade with. In terms of value, that was a very fair offer. I'm not wasting my time on trying to make deals with your squads anymore. I wouldn't call myself trolling, especially after all the leagues I've been in and all the success I've had in fantasy ball.

17 starts in 2012 down in the minors as a 28-year-old. I don't ignore that, but you have to factor what he was before that. Anyone can have a stretch of 15 or so starts and look great. He was 28 and was a full time reliever previously. No team was going to give him a full time rotation gig in 2013. Even Oakland didn't. He was just used as a mop-up/long man in the A's BP. So should the organization give every 28-year-old fringe replacement level player that comes around a longer look? What makes Chavez different from Esmil Rogers for example? Look at Rogers' rate stats from his time in the BP with Cleveland. Rogers gets so much hate around here, but couldn't we say Rogers turned the corner in 2012? Rogers was given an opportunity in the rotation due to injuries and never panned out. Sometimes you get lucky with late 20-year-old vets, sometimes you don't. If Chavez wasn't lights out for his first 3 starts, this thread wouldn't have existed. 17 starts in the minors doesn't justify an entire career for a 28-year-old veteran. Sorry, but you can't hold onto every 28-30-year-old ballplayer or pitcher who shows success in the minors and give them a long opportunity like 150 games, or 20-25 starts at the MLB level. Sometimes an opportunity arises where those players are put in those situations and they either succeed or disappoint, though no organization should not be guaranteeing everyday AB's or a rotation spot to fringe veterans who displayed some success in the minors.

How is that trolling though? In my opinion, an everyday player like Soriano > than a starter with low K rates like Hudson. Plus you could use a DH with 30 HR pop.

Soriano for Tim Hudson? How the f*** is that trolling lol

How is offering you Alfonso Soriano for Tim Hudson trolling Jay?

Sent you another offer.

Spanky, sent you a trade in the DDL. Take a look.

Traded Cecil to the Cubs. Paying some of his salary, but saved more more than just outright dropping him.

I'm sure if Chavez had a 9 something ERA after his first three starts, this conversation/thread wouldn't be happening. There was nothing that suggested Chavez was going to be successful as a MLB starter. If Oakland had Griffin and Parker, Chavez would be in the pen right now. Some doors opened for him and he's getting an opportunity, which is great for him! And so far, its paying off. For how long though? Not sure. It's only 3 starts, and I'm not getting tricked into stats this early in the season after 14 games into a 162 game season. If his arm could hold up over a full season of a starters workload, he can be a decent I think as I've stated previously. I'm definitely rooting for the guy, though to think you saw this start coming is pretty egotistic. It was not "plain dumb" for the Jays to give up a 28-year-old swingman who has been below replacement level for his entire MLB career. Unless you have a crystal ball that could predict the breakouts of 28-30 year old veterans like Jose Bautista etc, then kudos to you.

Spanky, sent you a trade offer in the DDL

Sent you a trade offer in the DDL

Aaron Harang was a FA, though people have been bidding on him. I just claim Chavez for 500K since he's not a FA and not on anyone's MLB/minor league roster.

I'm thinking of doing it and hopping on the Jesse Chavez bandwagon. Cecil is tough to drop for nothing but I could always trade for a middle reliever.

His control as a starter in Vegas and so far this season has been impeccable. I definitely have soft spots for pitchers who are always around the plate. Spanky even donated a jersey to me of one haha. Not sure he'll maintain that 1.9 BB/9 rate, though he should still be solid in that department limiting free passes. I caught some of his last start, flipping back and forth between games on MLB TV, and he did look good from what I saw. Has a nice over-the-top hook and his fastball I think was in the low-90's. It'll be interesting to see if he could hold up as a starter, since he's never tossed a lot of innings before in a single season. His 130.2 IP in 2012 was the most he's thrown in a season and last time he topped the 100 inning mark was in 2004. I'll definitely circle his next start on my calendar and watch it on MLB TV - he might be a nice guy to follow in 2014. If he puts together a 2 WAR season, that definitely valuable no doubt. I think Gaudin started off hot in 2007 and then he tired down the stretch - I think expecting a similar 2 WAR season is reasonable from Chavez if he makes 30 starts. And if his control and K rates hold up, he could be better which wouldn't shock me. At the same time, he can s*** the bed in May and everyone forgets the epic tale of Jesse Chavez.

I have no problem with dropping Morales, though I'd only free up 125K so I'd need to drop Cecil as well to save the rest since its a 100M cap.

Speaking of Jesse Chavez...should I claim him in my 30-team dynasty league for 500K haha? Shocked nobody has yet. Thing is, I'd have to drop Brett Cecil and Franklin Morales to clear salary.

I think he can be decent. Don't expect him to sustain this success as a starter however. His career WAR is still -0.2, so he really hasn't displayed success over an extended period of time at the MLB level, and was hardly used as a starter in the minors. I think he can go on and have a similar season like Chad Gaudin did in 2007 (1.9 WAR) over a full season. Definitely possible if he's able to hold up for 200 innings. I just don't see how people all of a sudden have projected him to be such a great starter when he doesn't have a long history of being a starter in both the majors and the minors. Also, it's not like he's been lights out in the minors anyways and he's already 30-years-old. It's a nice story to see no doubt, though there is no way anybody saw this start coming and it's pretty unlikely this continues.