jaysblue

I'll go with Varsho tonight

Yeah pretty much 20 years, which is crazy when you think about it. Not saying it's a bad thing, but yeah shocking it's been awhile. Rios had some good seasons here. Two back-to-back 5 WAR seasons. It's too bad he never realized his full potential and became a legitimate superstar. He had all the tools to do so. I remember after 2007, the Jays came so close trading him for Tim Lincecum, which would have been sweet! Rios had a couple of decent seasons after he left Toronto, though he was either awful or had a 3-4 WAR season out of the blue haha. Wells was solid as well and had some really good years. That contract hurt his image which made some fans turn on him, but he was a solid player when he was healthy. It's too bad he couldn't consistently be a 5-6 WAR player. He also didn't age that well and lost some athleticism.

Haha thanks! I'll watch Zac Gallen pitch against the Pirates on MLB TV tonight instead!

Kevin Pillar probably the last good OF this team produced. Does Jose Bautista count if Lourdes and Teo do? Adam Lind but he became strictly a 1B/DH. Reed Johnson had some good seasons when he was platooning with Frank Catalanotto. Vernon Wells and Alex Rios were both probably the last elite outfielders this team produced.

The game tonight on Apple TV. Can we still watch it on Sportsnet?

I need to make coffee.

Jays lost me a lot of money this week!

I just cracked open another beer mate. Bring it on!

Damn I bet $10 on the Jays just now given the odds

Yeah unless Jansen goes out and has a 5 WAR season, he won't get near Murphy money. I think given his injury history, 4 years around $36-40M would be pretty fair for both sides.

Can Kirk handle a workload of 130-140 games behind the plate though? Kirk isn't bad defensively, not knocking him at all. As he ages, and if he doesn't stay in decent shape, his defense will regress. That's with any catcher or player. It actually isn't a bad idea to extend Jansen maybe in the offseason. Allows the Jays to keep both Kirk and Jansen fresh over a 162 game season. Probably can offer something similar to what the Braves extended Murphy for, but maybe one less year and slightly less AAV.

Kirk is more proven at the MLB level, not denying that. Even at the time of the trade, I preferred keeping Kirk/Jansen as the catching tandem given the Jays timeline to contend. Moreno had more risk given he was an unknown commodity at the big league level. The issue with Kirk is if he doesn't stay in somewhat decent shape, it's going to have a negative impact on his overall performance both offensively and behind the plate long term. There is nothing wrong with being concerned about that. Moreno could end up being like a Jean Segura type bat behind the plate. For Moreno to be valuable offensively, he'll have to hit close to .300 every season, given his low BB rate and lack of power thus far. Given his age, it's reasonable to expect he makes improvements in those areas down the road. Also, he might not. So still more risk if he does regress given the low BB rate and power. Kirk even if he hits .240 or .250, he'll still be valuable offensively given his high BB rate. Only concern is if he doesn't hit for much power and declines defensively long term. Like I said before, if Kirk can end up like Gregg Zaun behind the plate, more than happy. As well, definitely upside for more offensive output if he takes better care of himself physically.

For the most part, it seems like contracts in the NBA, NFL and MLB have gone up like crazy. NHL is actually pretty low in comparison.

I bet $10 on the Rays today. I don't feel bad about it, as long as the Blue Jays win tonight!

Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill are laughing!

Cortes was overrated last year. That's why I traded him to William in the LOD.

It seems like some posters on here can't fathom that Moreno could end up being better than Kirk. But you can't suggest that at all or else pitch forks come after you. If Moreno ends up providing more value than Kirk/Jansen over the next 4-5 years, which is possible, I don't see an issue. Like we've said, we don't know who Arizona preferred or wanted. Did they prefer Kirk over Moreno, visa versa? We'll never know so its a moot point. The key piece for the Blue Jays is Varsho. If he performs at an elite level where he is averaging 4-5 WAR per season, and if Varsho helps them win a World Series, then the Jays are more than okay.

I don't think some of us are too worried about "winning" or "losing" the trade. I've even said numerous times that I liked it and understand the trade from the Jays perspective in terms of their timeline. I'm not worried about Varsho at all. Have him under control for 4 seasons and there is still room for him to grow into a better player. My issue here is how some posters praise Kirk as an amazing stud behind the plate while discounting what Moreno has done so far. It's like you can't offer constructive criticism on Kirk or else you're attacked. Same thing if you praise the job Moreno has done or if you say Moreno could end up being better than Kirk, you're attacked as well.

I'll do Vladdy today if he's in the lineup

One of Kirk or Jansen are likely traded. The Jays wouldn't have kept all 3 catchers.

I agree with Laika. At the time of the trade, the thought was Moreno wasn't going to make an impact in the short term right away, therefore Kirk and Jansen, who are proven, are more valuable to the Jays over the next two seasons. There was more risk with Moreno if he didn't develop into a solid starting catcher both offensively and defensively given the Jays window to contend. At this point, we're seeing Moreno hitting extremely well - yes most hits are singles but he's hitting .321 with a .746 OPS and that's with very little power to show so far. Alongside with his very strong defense in the early going. Imagine if he starts hitting for more power whether later this season or further down the road and continues to provide high batting averages, then he's looking like a real stud behind the plate. Varsho (who I still believe in) and Kirk/Jansen (I believe in both as well) have been awful to start the season. I expect all three to bounce back. Right now, the way Moreno has started his career in Arizona and if he continues on an upward trajectory, it's looking like he was the catcher to keep because of his long term potential and since he's making an impact already in the short term. So right now, his successful start + long term upside and Lourdes successful start are tilting the trade in favor of Arizona. Doesn't mean it was a bad trade or awful trade from the Blue Jays. As well, we don't know if the D'Backs preferred Moreno over Kirk or did the Blue Jays offer Moreno etc. If the Jays get 4-5 WAR out of Varsho every season, I'll take that. If Moreno develops some power and becomes a 4-5 WAR catcher, whereas Jansen/Kirk are only 2-3 WAR guys, then yeah not a great use of resources, though again we don't have a transcript of the trade discussions and who Arizona preferred so it's a moot point. Overall, the trade I think does need more time obviously before we declare a clear winner. Right now it's tilting towards Arizona but yes that could change if Varsho and Kirk/Jansen both get hot and Moreno/Lourdes slow down. Still a lot of baseball left and as well still a couple more seasons before making a final conclusion.

I thought they would have moved Tanner Houck to that role, but I guess not.

You gotta hope Varsho is a 4-5 WAR player every season. If he's just a 2 WAR player, meh Arizona wins the trade. Still very early though. Varsho just needs a couple hot weeks and his numbers could greatly improve!

I think some posters on here fell in love with Kirk too much last season and thought Moreno was easily expendable. So far, the Jays have got very little from Kirk and Jansen. While I still like both and still believe Kirk can be a solid catcher moving forward, Moreno is looking like he most likely is the best of the 3 moving forward long term.

Chris Bassitt - AL Pitcher of the Month for May! Said it last week!