jaysblue

LOL but when I suggest the Jays target an elite superstar...

Jays would actually be a good fit for Ohtani if Rogers decided to open up their wallets. Jays wouldn't need Ohtani to pitch until 2025 at least, since the rotation is already strong with Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt and Kikuchi. He can strictly DH in 2024 and then can be eased back into a SP for the 2025 season. Gausman, Bassitt and Berrios will be a year older and Kikuchi is gone as a FA so having an elite ace in the wings would be sweet. Jays add a top power bat to their lineup who is a lefty! From Ohtani's standpoint, he might want to expand his base in Canada and there are a lot of Japanese Canadians who live in Toronto and Vancouver. He's close to other big markets on the east coast like New York and Boston as well. The Jays likely would be shown more down in the US on ESPN and FOX, so he'll still get coverage south of the border when the Jays visit the Yankees, Red Sox or any other team.

The league is on Yahoo correct?

I do expect some players to rebound next season, guys like Varsho, Kirk and even Vladdy can't be as bad as they were. I hope Springer does as well, but his age does concern me. He very much could end up like a Vernon Wells or Alfonso Soriano, where he becomes a dead asset. I don't think the status quo is good enough. There was something fundamentally wrong with this team in 2023. Offensively, the struggles lasted over 162 games + 2 WC games. This wasn't just a team that ran into bad luck at the end of the season against Minnesota. Improvements and upgrades need to be made to give this team a better chance at going on a deep Postseason run. Another elite star would be nice if it could happen via trade, even if it's for a player with only 1 or 2 years of control. Obviously if Vladdy bounces back and produces like he did in 2021, that would be fantastic. Though you can't go into the 2024 season banking on him returning to his 2021 form. That's why adding another elite player if possible would be nice. And if Vlad does return to his 2021 form, even better!!

Vladdy hasn't been that elite guy for the last two years. Jays are losing some valuable FAs like Chapman, and some FA pickups last offseason who they got lucky with in Belt and KK. That's 9-10 WAR right there. Jays can't mess around in 2024 and 2025. You either make the upgrades necessary to put yourself in the conversation as a World Series contender, or you keep the status quo where you're an 85-90 win team who just sneaks into the Postseason and hope to get lucky at the right time. Another elite player is needed, whether that's through free agency or trade.

We're already going to be in 2024, Year 4 (or 5 if you count 2020) of what is considered their prime window to contend. I hate bringing up the negatives, but thus far the results haven't been spectacular. Need to win now over these next two years when you have guys like Bo and Vladdy still under contract and arms like Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt pitching in top form and healthy. Every season that goes by, the window gets smaller and smaller.

Agreed! It's alright I took the bullet for saying this earlier haha.

I said this earlier but was met with sarcasm. Yup Jays need to add another elite player who can give them 4-5 WAR. Can't rely on Vlad being that player.

Michael Harris damn what a catch and then throw to the infield. Riley then with the rocket to first to get Harper! Great comeback win by the Braves! Glad we got a series and it isn't 2-0 Phillies.

Jays have to replace 4 bats in their starting lineup, as well as improving over some of the other bats they have. Vladdy was supposed to be one of their elite players but he isn't. Sure he has the potential to have a monster season, but heading into 2024 you can't rely on Vladdy being one of your elite stars. Springer is 34 years old and looks like his best days are behind him. Kirk needs to get into better shape and hit for some more power. Varsho who was supposed to be a top offensive contributor on this team when they traded for him has a career 94 wRC+ over 1600 plate appearances. Jansen is made of glass. Throwing some suggestions out there for who the Jays could target this offseason. Yeah going after an elite player I think is important because other than Bo, this team doesn't really have another elite star unless Vladdy returns to his 2021 form.

Personally, I think the trade route is the best option but not sure the Jays would have enough to land a bat like Soto if they dealt just prospects. It's a shame because I thought Shapiro and Atkins from Day 1 wanted to always have an influx of highly touted young prospects in the minors. I don't really see that. I'm not comfortable giving Bellinger $25-30M per season. But if the Jays can't go the trade route, Belly would be better than nothing. We'll see what happens. Soto would be ideal and since he only has one year left, Padres might be open to moving him. Window is closing fast. 2024 and 2025 are probably the last good opportunities to go for a World Series.

Yeah it was shocking how earlier in the season Moreno at 23 years old was considered to have very little upside and a noodle bat. Yet Varsho at age 26 with a career wRC+ under 100 had all the upside in the world.

Some possible OF trade candidates: - Juan Soto - Luis Robert Jr. - Christian Yelich Would be nice if they could add a 4-5 player regardless of what position. I don't think you can go into 2024 relying on Vlad to be that guy. While he could be, can't be hoping he is. Need to pair Bo with another elite player.

Bellinger if they open up their wallets. Or try to trade for one.

I would bring KK back as a 4th outfielder but he likely lands a gig where he's guaranteed 400 ABs from someone in a platoon role. Jays really can't offer that. Definitely the Jays should spend their money on finding a big masher for LF who can provide 4-5 WAR.

Yeah both pretty much provide similar value. I guess with KK there are more red flags like age, health and lack of pop. Varsho at least is still just 26, has some pop and durability isn't really that much of a concern. Jays are stuck with Varsho until 2027, so makes sense to put him in CF. As well, he should only be hitting at the bottom of the order, either 7th, 8th or 9th. Let's hope we never see Varsho hit cleanup ever again.

Difference is Varsho at least could hit one out of the park, which is what this team needs more of. He should be good for 20+ HR's, whereas you only likely get single digits from KK. Also need KK to stay healthy in order for him to post a 2+ WAR season.

That's on the front office. If Atkins and the front office are brilliant and have all the data, they shouldn't have thought of Varsho as a middle-of-the-order bat. Their player evaluation was way off. Like you I believe if he starts the year in CF and is healthy, he can be a 3-4 WAR player. Hope he improves on his offensive numbers. Likely won't be anything special with the bat, but I'll take .250/.320/.450 with 25-30 HR's from him any day if he's playing excellent D in CF. He probably should be hitting 7th in the lineup, not any higher. Regardless Jays need a big masher or two this offseason. If you can't trade for one, go out and sign Bellinger to play LF and JD Martinez to DH. Would also look and see what deals are out there for Vladdy and Springer.

I hope both Atkins and JS are gone. After catching up on what was said at the press conference and hearing more about the player morale in the clubhouse after that decision was made, can't really get excited if Atkins and JS are back. I think you need to bring in new leaders to right the ship. Can't keep the status quo again with Atkins and JS.

I like Varsho and think he can still be a useful player. Easy guy to root for. Not a star or anything. Did the Jays overpay for him though? Right now it's safe to say they really did overpay for a career 96 wRC+ type of bat. Varsho has some good skills but a lot of flaws. When you trade a top prospect like Moreno, you want to trade him in a deal for an elite player or pitcher with a track record. Varsho isn't that. Even coming into 2023, his highest wRC+ was only 107. Far from elite offensively. I think having Varsho in CF next season will definitely provide more value defensively and make up for his bat. Sure he still has some potential offensively. Likely settles in as a .250/.320/.450 type of bat with 25-30 HR's and 15-20 SBs. I think that's his ceiling. That's solid offensive production from your CF, though he's not a middle-of-the-order bat or offensive star we thought he could be.

The Springer contract could end up being a disaster moving forward. He's 34 years old coming off a 104 wRC+ season. Still owed $75M over the next three seasons. Jays really need him to bounce back next season or else that's a good chunk of payroll locked up over the next three seasons to an aging declining player. Probably his contract is immovable unless you take on another contract. There is nothing wrong in suggesting that Atkins could have added some lumber at the deadline or earlier when they realized the lineup was an issue. Didn't have to be anyone flashy but a solid player with experience and track record who could have got hot for you at the right time. Like you said, who actually moved is not conclusive on who could have moved. I'm sure other bats were available. It's a real shame that the Blue Jays were unable to take advantage of having such a strong pitching staff this season. Every season is different so we can't expect the pitching staff to have the exact same success in 2024 or 2025. The Jays have to take advantage of these windows. It's only going to get more difficult moving forward.

Went to Game 1 in Atlanta on Saturday night! Atmosphere was electric before and during the game. Sucks the Braves lineup played like the Jays haha. Really cool seeing Spencer Strider pitch. One of my favourite pitchers in the game. Went 7 strong innings against that Phillies lineup. Wish he came out for the 8th haha. I'll see if I could upload some pictures after. Truist Park is a great ballpark. Feels small and intimate, so no matter where you sit you're close to the action. Awesome food and drink concessions all around. A lot of interactive activities and games for kids as well. The Braves Hall of Fame in the 100 level concourse behind the home plate area is a really nice touch. Wish we had something like that at the Rogers Centre. A lot of great standing room areas and rooftop bars in the ballpark as well. The Battery area is really built up with awesome bars, restaurants and shops. Definitely a cool area to hang out before or after the game. Fun atmosphere. Would be cool to stay at the Omni Hotel there next time during a series.

D'Backs!

If Vladdy is back next season, he can't be thought of as one of your elite pieces to build around. The Jays need to go out and acquire a 4-5 WAR player and can't rely on Vlad to be that. Vlad definitely has the potential to be that type of player again and if he is, even better! I'm sure there are some challenge trades out there to be made for Vlad. Some teams might still value his potential, and two years of control left. Some teams might be looking to shake up things as well.

A lot of Atkins apologists on this board. I bet if these teams were under AA, majority would want him and his FO gone.