John_Havok

That’s one way to look at it. An optimistic look would be that both sides seem to agree that it needs to be raised, so it’s a likely thing that can agreed on. As is expanded playoffs, universal DH, draft lottery, minimum salary increases, uniform advertising (f***) Looks like the major sticking points are international draft, revenue sharing, and service time issues.

Partial list of negotiating topics: FREE AGENCY MLB: Would keep existing system or change eligibility to age 29.5 rather than six years of major league service, which it has been since 1976. MLBPA: Would keep existing system for 2022-23 offseason, then would for 2023-24 and 2024-25 offseasons make eligibility six years of service or five years of service and age 30.5, whichever comes earlier, and then for 2025-26 offseason and later, six years of service or five years of service and age 29.5, whichever comes earlier. FREE AGENT DRAFT PICK COMPENSATION MLB: Would agree to eliminate penalties for teams signing free agents who turned down a qualifying offer. Draft pick compensation has existed since 1976. SALARY ARBITRATION MLB: Would keep current system or replace it with salaries based primarily on award recognition and career Fangraphs WAR, saying the change would address MLBPA’s concerns about paying younger players based on value. Players currently eligible for arbitration under the expired CBA would be grandfathered and have the choice of salary arbitration or the new system. MLBPA: Would lower eligibility to two years of major league service, its level from 1974 through 1986, when it increased to three years. In the expired agreement, it was three years plus the top 22% by service time of players with at least two years but less than three years. LUXURY TAX Threshold was $210 million in 2021, with tax rates of 20% for first offender, 30% for exceeding in consecutive years and 50% for exceeding in three or more consecutive years. Surcharge for exceeding $230 million and $250 million. MLB: Proposed raising threshold to $214 million in 2022 and offered an option of a $100 million payroll minimum funded by a 25% tax on payrolls above $180 million. Tax threshold would rise to $220 million in final season. MLBPA: Proposed raising threshold starting at $245 million for the 2022 season and eliminating non-tax penalties. SERVICE TIME MLBPA: Made proposals aimed to prevent what it says is service-time manipulation, including allow accruing of service time for rookies for awards and special accomplishments. MLB: Rejected MLBPA proposals AMATEUR DRAFT MLB: Proposed an NBA/NHL-style draft lottery for top three selections. MLBPA: Accepted the concept of a weighted lottery but would expand the number of teams to eight and make adjustments designed to incentivize competition. PRE-ARBITRATION PLAYERS MLBPA: Proposed pool from central revenues for pre-arbitration players, to be allocated based on award recognition and WAR. MLB: Smaller pool funded from revenue, partly from expanded playoffs and luxury tax proceeds currently assigned to other purposes. MINIMUM SALARY Usually one of the last items addressed. Was $570,500 in the major leagues in 2021, $46,600 in the minor leagues for a player signing his initial major league contract and $93,000 in the minor leagues for a player signing a second or later major league contract. Both sides would raise minimum but disagree on amounts. POSTSEASON MLB: Would expand postseason from 10 to 14 teams, with wild cards increasing from two per league to four. Division winner with best record in each league would advance directly to Division Series, and the other two division winners and wild-card teams would start in a best-of-three round. The division winner with the second-best record would choose its opponent from among the three lowest-seeded wild-card teams. The division winner with the third-best record would then get to pick from among the remaining two wild cards. The top wild card would face whichever team is left over after the division winners make their choices. MLBPA: 12-team expanded playoffs and possible realignment to two divisions per league, subject to agreement on MLBPA economic proposals. DESIGNATED HITTER MLB has offered to accept MLBPA’s proposal to extend the designated hitter to the National League, subject to agreement on postseason expansion. The DH has been used in the American League since 1973 and was used in both leagues during the pandemic-shortened 2020 season. UNIFORMS ADVERTISEMENTS MLB: Proposed adding uniform advertising patches. MLBPA: Would agree, subject to agreement on MLBPA economic proposals. REVENUE SHARING MLBPA says MLB has rejected all its proposed changes and indicated that it would not agree to any changes. MLB says the changes would eliminate $100 million of revenue sharing money currently going to small-market teams in a system that has been largely in place since the 1997 agreement. INTERNATIONAL DRAFT MLB has proposed an international draft, which the MLBPA has long opposed.

That's pretty much what I just said. You can't count on Moreno to be the 3b of the future, but you also shouldn't make that position impossible for him to step into if he shows he is ready. I don't have the information available to make that decision, I can only guess the Jays are hoping to have the option of him at 3b, or they wouldn't have asked his Arizona fall league team to play him there.

NOt yet. He might be the last one.

Nothing wrong with a 3 year deal for Kikuchi if it's around 8-10 Per season. He's got skills, just needs to be fully unlocked.

Signing Stroman probably is cutting costs. Who's left for a starting pitcher that's worth anything?

Good point. Given that anyone not on the 40 man roster wouldn't be in the union, I would expect this doesn't impact them.

Yeah but you also don't want to pave over the position you want the kid to play either with someone on a big money multi-year deal. A stopgap would be someone with good quality D, not an embarrassing bat, and maybe 1-2 year deal that you can either keep on the bench once Moreno comes up (assuming he's truly ready for 3b this season... which is honestly something I doubt), or deal to try and fill some other need.

Lockout starts tomorrow. What remains to be seen is whether it goes on long enough to impact Spring Training or season games. Really the only thing players miss out on with a lockout over the winter is access to team training facilities. However, most large agents will have their own training facilities (BOras for example has his own) or they will just work out at home, or some university.

I had the same conversation with someone at work today about that, and used that exact same example. Like.. how could the players demand full salary in a reduced schedule with the owners not only not getting fans in the stands, but for less games, and less TV revenue? But that's the reality of negotiating at that level, both sides intentionally ask for insanely unreasonable things that they know will get rejected so they arrive in the middle at what they really want. It's especially sad when both knows know that's what both sides do, and still do it while pretending that they don't.

I guess the perfect scenario there would be that Ramirez arrives here for 2 seasons via trade, Vlad and Bo both get extensions done in the meantime, and whatever 3B prospect that didn't get traded in the Ramirez deal takes over 3B at that point. There's a lot of assumptions made in my statement though like the Jays and both those players actually agree on long term extensions that make sense. Right now the long term core of the team is obviously Bo, Vlad, Springer, Berrios, Gausman. 3 are already locked up with guaranteed contracts, 2 need (IMO) to be. That's about as many guys as you can realistically afford to be big money deals before things get out of control in a hurry. Extending Ramirez in that scenario likely wouldn't be feasible unless both Vlad and Bo get bent over like Acuna and Albies.

Yeah, a lot can change in 6 months. Apparently the Jays were hard after Ramirez at the deadline and Cleveland loves Kirk. So maybe there's still a deal there without Moreno now that it's only 2 years of control vs 2.5.

Just finalized, pending a physical. No term or dollars given yet.

I feel like this could be Shakespeare, if he had ADHD

4 straight years of negative D value from Taylor though... he had 1 good year prior to that. Should also be mentioned that he has very little experience at 3b overall, like 189 innings.

THat should be plan Z. PLan A should be get a half-decent 3b on something very short term with a focus on defense, give Biggio his last long look at 2b to see if the bat comes around or not and then cut bait if needed, and at THAT time, see what's out there for 2b while Espinal fills in the meantime. Injuries will happen of course, but 3b is the clear priority over 2b IMO

Maybe 90%.

Its the same thing every time around. Nobody ever negotiates in good faith until they're up against a deadline of losing games. At least this is in the offseason instead of June.

Agreed. Him opting out was a bit of a shocker. He would be the exact type of guy people would be trying to sign to be this year's Steven Matz.

Oh yeah Taylor is lightyears better with the bat, but defensive versatility is only so valuable if he's not good at the defense part. Taylor really isn't good at defense. You can put him in many places to be below average sure. Quite honestly, the Jays have enough defensive versatility with regards to guys capable of playing multiple positions, they just need the guys to be better defensively at the positions they get put in.

Espinal and smith should not be starters, whoever advocates as such is kinda... nutty. Espinal is a bench guy, everything you want in your bench IF backup. Defensive versatility, actually good at each position, and doesn't suck with the bat. 0 power, but has a good eye and doesn't embarrass himself. Smith is AAA depth that comes up in case of injury for now, but clearly they hope he can still take another step forward. Who is advocating for these guys to be starters?

Bonus structures like this are hilarious. They know they'll never have to pay it out ... no chance Vlad would ever get that kind of deal in any contract he signs.

Espinal is already Chris Taylor. Doesn't have the power, but is far better defensively.

For the life of me I can't figure out how the Braves are balking at Freeman. Absolute beast that's been your franchise cornerstone his entire career and projects to still be an amazing hitter for at least the next 4 years. I get it to a point, you know he wont be worth it the entire length of the deal, but you just figuratively stole money from Acuna and Albies, in order to ensure you can pay other great players. FREEMAN IS THAT GREAT PLAYER! In the words of Teddy KGB ... "Pay that man his money"

That could very well be what happens, but then where's the depth that every team needs when injury hits? all they have left are minor leaguers with 0 big league experience at that point. Sure there will some last minute minor league signings with invite's to spring training, but I don't think that's what they team should be shooting for. If anything, they should be looking to add at least 1 big league arm, with Pearson starting the year at AAA (along with Logue and Francis), in his last option year to get stretched out, and he be the first man up when injury hits, assuming his health and command are good. Kay and Hatch are probably also 5th man rotation options but to me it would be better if they were the depth, not the 1st option. I think Hatch still has options, but Kay might be out as he's been up and down for 3 seasons. Kay might have the inside track on #5 as it stands right now and that's probably not ideal.