Orioles (Baz) vs Blue Jays (Gausman): 6/7/26, 1:37pm

[max silver]

1 hour ago, ComeTogether said:

Imagine if he was on bottom of 9th in game 7 WS.  

The team very well may not have had the lead by that point.

[SeranthonySantander]

1 hour ago, Bob_Gratton said:

We have a chance, doubt he come back with the Yankees😅 But Dodgers will probably want him

Jays probably won’t get him because of the gun thing with his ex.  Canadians don’t take kindly to relievers with history  for spousal abuse

i am willing to forgive him though but the front office probably not 

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Jonn said:

He still has man boobs

And you are still an idiot to even make posts like this.

[Joltin Joe]

Valenzuela turning into decent catcher

[max silver]

Just now, Joltin Joe said:

Valenzuela turning into decent catcher

"Turning into"? He's already shown himself to be an impact level defender with an elite combination of framing and throwing. I think the game calling and blocking need work but he can continue to hone his craft at the major league level.

[Masterbather]

5 minutes ago, max silver said:

"Turning into"? He's already shown himself to be an impact level defender with an elite combination of framing and throwing. I think the game calling and blocking need work but he can continue to hone his craft at the major league level.

If his trajectory continues it will force a very interesting decision, likely in the off-season. True number one catchers are an important commodity that a lot of teams don't have. We might have two of them. Both of them have fantastic contractual situations.

[max silver]

6 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

If his trajectory continues it will force a very interesting decision, likely in the off-season. True number one catchers are an important commodity that a lot of teams don't have. We might have two of them. Both of them have fantastic contractual situations.

I think a Kirk/Valenzuela tandem would be incredibly potent similar to the days where the team enjoyed the Kirk/Jansen duo. Except in this instance both catchers are elite defenders.

[Brownie19]

2 hours ago, ComeTogether said:

Imagine if he was on bottom of 9th in game 7 WS.  

A lot of people on this board were very critical of Varland in the playoffs last year.  Regularly questioning why we kept using him in big situations.  

Funny how quickly people forget.

[Masterbather]

4 minutes ago, max silver said:

I think a Kirk/Valenzuela tandem would be incredibly potent similar to the days where the team enjoyed the Kirk/Jansen duo. Except in this instance both catchers are elite defenders.

Which is why one of them would have to go. You're not maximizing either one of their values by playing around with the DH/C spot, and I also don't like tying up the DH spot with guys who can actually play defense. We're better off getting that value somewhere else in a trade.

It's a wonderful problem to have, and one that I hope we do end up with.

[max silver]

1 minute ago, Masterbather said:

Which is why one of them would have to go. You're not maximizing either one of their values by playing around with the DH/C spot, and I also don't like tying up the DH spot with guys who can actually play defense. We're better off getting that value somewhere else in a trade.

It's a wonderful problem to have, and one that I hope we do end up with.

We shall see how the front office ends up proceeding. They ended up keeping Jansen around until his last season of control and didn't trade him until the trade deadline approached so it's entirely possible that they decide to run with a Mexican super duo moving forward behind the plate. I think that once Springer is gone this will open up plenty of DH at bats for Kirk and this is a perfect way to maximize his value to the club.

[max silver]

7 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

A lot of people on this board were very critical of Varland in the playoffs last year.  Regularly questioning why we kept using him in big situations.  

Funny how quickly people forget.

This version of Varland is dramatically more effective than the guy that pitched in the post season last year.

[Masterbather]

4 minutes ago, max silver said:

We shall see how the front office ends up proceeding. They ended up keeping Jansen around until his last season of control and didn't trade him until the trade deadline approached so it's entirely possible that they decide to run with a Mexican super duo moving forward behind the plate. I think that once Springer is gone this will open up plenty of DH at bats for Kirk and this is a perfect way to maximize his value to the club.

We still have Santander, and we'll always have some sort of lumbering meathead who needs the DH spot. It's nice to have the option to have the DH spot available for any lumbering meathead that we want to pick up.

Also, it's actually impossible to maximize the value of two two-way players by having them both DH more than they should. You are forcing both players to have less value by doing that. They might do it but I don't think they should.

[Stangstag]

26 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

A lot of people on this board were very critical of Varland in the playoffs last year.  Regularly questioning why we kept using him in big situations.  

Funny how quickly people forget.

That Judge homerun was a gut punch. He definitely had his share of Hoffman-esque moments in the playoffs, and arguably Hoffman was better in October.

[Alejandro Murphy]

Imagine Varland was the closer of the pivotal World Series game seven.

 

Varland is truly built to be a closer rather than the bridge to the closer.

 

 

 

[Stangstag]

3 minutes ago, Alejandro Murphy said:

Imagine Varland was the closer of the pivotal World Series game seven.

 

Varland is truly built to be a closer rather than the bridge to the closer.

 

 

 

We just went over this

[max silver]

1 minute ago, Masterbather said:

We still have Santander, and we'll always have some sort of lumbering meathead who needs the DH spot. It's nice to have the option to have the DH spot available for any lumbering meathead that we want to pick up.

Also, it's actually impossible to maximize the value of two two-way players by having them both DH more than they should. You are forcing both players to have less value by doing that. They might do it but I don't think they should.

Ultimately I think there's a ton of value in possessing two starter quality catchers even if it doesn't necessarily maximize the strength of the roster. I think the injury insurance aspect shouldn't be ignored as if either catcher hits the injured list the other player would simply take over starting duties. Kirk has made plenty of injured list appearances in his career and if this were to occur with Valenzuela being traded away you are left with a backup starting and a depth player as backup. I think that with Kirk possessing the type of heavyset physique he features he's likely better served starting something like 4 times per week in order to keep him fresh and healthy, and the team tends to pinch run for him later in games. With a starter quality backup you can substitute for Kirk and hardly miss a beat and if either player is a little beat up and needs a day or two off you can be confident in the backup to keep the ball rolling.

It could also prove to be difficult to receive appropriate trade value in return. I recall it was mentioned that the Blue Jays tended to value their 3 starter quality backstops more than opposing general managers back when Jansen and Moreno were part of the 3 headed monster, and with Valenzuela being more of a breakout player with less history of performance it's impossible to know what the trade offers would look like. Opposing teams already undervalued what Kirk brings in the past and this could certainly be the case yet again.

 

[Masterbather]

10 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

That Judge homerun was a gut punch. He definitely had his share of Hoffman-esque moments in the playoffs, and arguably Hoffman was better in October.

There's no argument to be made. 

Varland was not great in the postseason at all. Hoffman was very good actually.

Varland was also mediocre in the regular season after they traded for him. 

People's memories aren't just selective they are flat out creating realities that didn't exist.

[Alejandro Murphy]

I am glad that Ernie is ahead of Oka in the line up.  Right off the bat, I always thought it would result to a more positive result 🙏🏻

 

I also can’t wait for Kirk or Barger to be the hitter after Vlad.  Maybe it will result to another positive for Vlad’s approach and the opposing pitcher as well, having a legit big bat protection behind him.

[Brownie19]

5 minutes ago, Alejandro Murphy said:

Imagine Varland was the closer of the pivotal World Series game seven.

 

Varland is truly built to be a closer rather than the bridge to the closer.

He wasn't the same pitcher last Fall - duh.

[max silver]

1 minute ago, Alejandro Murphy said:

I am glad that Ernie is ahead of Oka in the line up.  Right off the bat, I always thought it would result to a more positive result 🙏🏻

 

I also can’t wait for Kirk or Barger to be the hitter after Vlad.  Maybe it will result to another positive for Vlad’s approach and the opposing pitcher as well, having a legit big bat protection behind him.

Protection for Vlad isn't going to matter one iota until he stops chasing pitches that he has no chance to do damage with.

[Brownie19]

2 hours ago, Masterbather said:

Which is why one of them would have to go. You're not maximizing either one of their values by playing around with the DH/C spot, and I also don't like tying up the DH spot with guys who can actually play defense. We're better off getting that value somewhere else in a trade.

It's a wonderful problem to have, and one that I hope we do end up with.

Based on his pedigree and minor league numbers, there's a very good chance that Valenzeula is just on a heater.  We're nowhere near the point where anyone should feel comfortable that he's a legit major league starting catcher.  Check back 2 years from now and there may then be merit to trading one of our catchers. 

[Alejandro Murphy]

tough one next series

 

go jays go

 

[Masterbather]

1 minute ago, Brownie19 said:

Based on his pedigree and minor league numbers, there's a very good chance that Valenzeula is just on a heater.  We're nowhere near the point where anyone should feel comfortable that he's a legit major league starting catcher.  Check back in 2 years from now and there may then be merit to trading one of our catchers. 

Oh he absolutely might be, if he is it's even more urgent that we try to get rid of him sooner rather than later. If he continues to have a fantastic season I think it's a decision they should make in the off-season. I would at least see what the value is out there.

[Rynodb1]

28 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

There's no argument to be made. 

Varland was not great in the postseason at all. Hoffman was very good actually.

Varland was also mediocre in the regular season after they traded for him. 

People's memories aren't just selective they are flat out creating realities that didn't exist.

Hoffman was our most effective relief pitcher in the postseason, besides maybe Bassitt. I know that. I'm talking this year. Right now. 

The 9th should be for Varland and only him. 

[max silver]

4 minutes ago, Rynodb1 said:

Hoffman was our most effective relief pitcher in the postseason, besides maybe Bassitt. I know that. I'm talking this year. Right now. 

The 9th should be for Varland and only him. 

I don't tend to agree. I fully support Varland entering games before the 9th in higher leverage situations when warranted. This 9th inning only "closer" mindset is exactly what led to Zack Britton being left to rot in the bullpen in a win or go home wild card game.

[max silver]

30 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Based on his pedigree and minor league numbers, there's a very good chance that Valenzeula is just on a heater.  We're nowhere near the point where anyone should feel comfortable that he's a legit major league starting catcher.  Check back in 2 years from now and there may then be merit to trading one of our catchers. 

I'm under no illusion that Valenzuela will be this locked in at the plate forever but the longer he sustains this current hot streak the more this starts to feel like a legitimate breakout vs simply being a hot streak. He completely flipped the switch since dropping the leg kick and it's like he's unlocked a new offensive ceiling. Sooner or later his timing will start to slip a bit and opposing pitchers will start to key on his weaknesses but the way Valenzuela has gone about producing doesn't feel like a fluke. He's producing tremendous plate appearances for anyone let alone a rookie as he's avoiding the chase unlike the rest of his teammates, hunting mistake pitches that he can hammer, fouling off a ton of pitches to stay alive and taking his walks when presented to him. 

[Rynodb1]

1 minute ago, max silver said:

I don't tend to agree. I fully support Varland entering games before the 9th in higher leverage situations when warranted. This 9th inning only "closer" mindset is exactly what led to Zack Britton being left to rot in the bullpen in a win or go home wild card game.

And this Varland entering before the 9th led to the 5-1 blown game by Hoffman. Rogers can handle high leverage. If we don't have 2 other pitchers that we trust for the 7th and 8th, then we need to make a move. 

Besides that, the playoffs, specifically a wild card game, are totally different than a regular season strategy. 

[Jays24]

3 hours ago, Jonn said:

If the rumours are true and Aroldis Chapman is available the Jays must get him.

Shatkins wont accept his prior off field issues imo. 

[Jays24]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

The team very well may not have had the lead by that point.

But the great thing is you would have always had the ability to pull him after 3 batters if he shat the bed. 

We let that scrub ride or die far too much last year and this year when most of us wanted a true closer at the deadline for the very same reason.

[Jays24]

45 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Based on his pedigree and minor league numbers, there's a very good chance that Valenzeula is just on a heater.  We're nowhere near the point where anyone should feel comfortable that he's a legit major league starting catcher.  Check back in 2 years from now and there may then be merit to trading one of our catchers. 

Ya its far too early to be thinking Venezuela will push for Kirk's job. 

Just enjoy the ride while it lasts and if he does keep it up then it'll be a great problem to discuss next year or the year after.