Blue Jays (Lauer) vs Angels (Soriano): 4/22/26, 3:07pm

[RA Whiffleball]

1 minute ago, max silver said:

Are you this obtuse intentionally or it more of an accident? Nance gave up a single walk and a single hit in 1.1 innings of work and this is him getting "shelled" in your view? You should take the opportunity to read a little more and post less as you are lacking in the basic baseball acumen that's required to keep up with the discussion here. 

Ok, we didn't lose Wednesday's game because of him. Sorry, I must have been watching a different game. I'll pay more attention next time.

[max silver]

5 minutes ago, RA Whiffleball said:

What I wrote is fact.

If our BP doesn't give up HRs in those situations, we win the series, and Yamamoto becomes a footnote.

I don't know why our fans go mental when you dare say anything critical of the BP. It cost us the WS, and it is costing us games this season. It needs to be improved. 

 

 

 

 

 

And if the offense tacked on more runs earlier in the game or scored late when they wasted some glorious opportunities the bullpen runs would have been nothing more than a footnote. See how easy it is to paint a completely different picture than what you are are portraying while also being factually correct? You are displaying all of the hallmarks of rigid black and white thinking here and this isn't a great way to ingratiate yourself to other board members when presented with a lot of more nuanced opinions than the binary position that you are stating. 

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, RA Whiffleball said:

I'm sorry, but this so much apologetic waffle. 

This club has the resources to build a better BP AND develop players. We are not a small-market club with poor owners, but you wouldn't know that listening to some of our apologist fans.

It's been 11 years this front office has been here, and our minor league system is still middle of the road at best. Yet every series we play, I see the opposition roll out guys from their BP who throw 97-102, while we roll out guys who throw sliders, sweepers, and curve balls, with a 92-94 mph fastball. 

Once again, I will repeat that our BP cost us the WS. These are the facts, and they are indisputable.

I will let the apologists waffle on about Babip, and other such nonsense. 

The Jays bullpen is 2nd in baseball in K/9 this year and #1 in xFIP.  Velo doesn't guarantee results.

If you don't appreciate having rational discussions like this - perhaps this board isn't for you.

[jaysblue]

I'm glad RA Whiffleball is taking some of the heat now off me and Jays24 😂

[jaysblue]

9 hours ago, mphenhef said:

Normally I would agree with this 100% but when the two bad starts were very clearly impacted by an illness there is some merit here although 2-3 starts is nothing.

Yeah, that’s a good point, and I should’ve mentioned it earlier. It’s very possible those two really bad starts were clearly affected by the illness he was dealing with.

Since then, he’s at least been passable and has kept the Jays in games. We’ve definitely had worse fill-in starters covering for injured arms in the past.

I know Lauer comes across as an annoying loudmouth and complainer, so he’s probably not as well-liked around here now as he was last season. But he needs to perform over his next start or two, otherwise he’s probably gone anyway.

[jaysblue]

3 hours ago, Stangstag said:

Yes, that is/could be a factor that doesn’t get factored into the raw numbers. I suppose we will see if the suck is behind him now or not

Yeah, over his next start or two, he needs to perform - plain and simple. Otherwise, he’s gone.

Lukes got a bit of a free pass earlier, but that same leash doesn’t apply to Lauer.
 

[RA Whiffleball]

2 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

The Jays bullpen is 2nd in baseball in K/9 this year and #1 in xFIP.  Velo doesn't guarantee results.

If you don't appreciate having rational discussions like this - perhaps this board isn't for you.

So if we don't agree with your waffle, we should leave?

Now that's a mature take.

[RA Whiffleball]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

And if the offense tacked on more runs earlier in the game or scored late when they wasted some glorious opportunities the bullpen runs would have been nothing more than a footnote. See how easy it is to paint a completely different picture than what you are are portraying while also being factually correct? You are displaying all of the hallmarks of rigid black and white thinking here and this isn't a great way to ingratiate yourself to other board members when presented with a lot of more nuanced opinions than the binary position that you are stating. 

Nothing binary about my position.

It's called stating facts.

And I'm not here to ingratiate myself with anyone.

It seems if posters disagree with the party line, they get accused of having mental/personality disorders and are encouraged to leave the forum.

The truth hurts.

[BTS]

2 hours ago, RA Whiffleball said:

What I wrote is fact.

If our BP doesn't give up HRs in those situations, we win the series, and Yamamoto becomes a footnote.

I don't know why our fans go mental when you dare say anything critical of the BP. It cost us the WS, and it is costing us games this season. It needs to be improved. 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you feel about the Boston Red Sox, new member?

[mphenhef]

2 hours ago, RA Whiffleball said:

I mean the BP that gave up the tying and winning runs via the HR in games 3 and 7. 

Their BP gave up 1 HR in a blowout game 1, and did not give up a HR in 22 innings in games 3 and 7, where if they give up even one HR over that span, the Jays win the series.

The truth hurts.

 

What you just wrote shows the bats were more to blame for what it is worth.  

[jaysblue]

6 minutes ago, BTS said:

How do you feel about the Boston Red Sox, new member?

[RA Whiffleball]

3 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

What you just wrote shows the bats were more to blame for what it is worth.  

The bats were fine - we scored 34 runs in that series, and that was with Yamamoto starting 2 games.

[RA Whiffleball]

9 minutes ago, BTS said:

How do you feel about the Boston Red Sox, new member?

They're keeping us out of the basement, so I love them!

[mphenhef]

Just now, RA Whiffleball said:

The bats were fine - we scored 34 runs in that series, and that was with Yamamoto starting 2 games.

Yet the previous post you talked about how they didn’t hit home runs off what wasn’t an elite bullpen.

[RA Whiffleball]

1 hour ago, jaysblue said:

I'm glad RA Whiffleball is taking some of the heat now off me and Jays24 😂

We are the baseball equivalent of the dissenting opinion on the Supreme Court.

[RA Whiffleball]

Just now, mphenhef said:

Yet the previous post you talked about how they didn’t hit home runs off what wasn’t an elite bullpen.

Not what I said, and you know it. 

If you want to use sophist arguments, be my guest.

[RA Whiffleball]

2 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

The Jays bullpen is 2nd in baseball in K/9 this year and #1 in xFIP.  Velo doesn't guarantee results.

If you don't appreciate having rational discussions like this - perhaps this board isn't for you.

Neither do the waffle stats you quoted - see Jeff Hoffman...

[RA Whiffleball]

3 hours ago, max silver said:

Good grief try to look even an inch beneath the surface. Your criticism is essentially boiling down to you thinking that every club in MLB is supposed to have 8 leverage relievers available to them at all times and anything less is inexcusable because it's easy to build a perfect bullpen in MLB as injuries and underperformance apparently don't exist in your view. Through a cascade brought about by a ton of rotation injuries, shorter starts from the rotation and heavy leverage group usage in the prior few games it was necessary to bump some mid leverage arms up the chain a bit. Nance didn't pitch that badly in the final game of the Angels series, and Fisher unfortunately had a little bi of a tough outing that was aided by an unfortunate well placed softly hit fly ball that fell in due to the alignment of the outfield. If/when the rotation rounds back into form and a lot of key starters begin to return the rotation innings should stabilize a bit, and with Garcia potentially nearing his return this can add another key leverage arm back into the mix. 

Nance didn't pitch that badly in the final game of the Angels series...

I'll say it again, give me some of that stuff you're smoking, it must be real gooooooooooooooooooood....

[mphenhef]

4 minutes ago, RA Whiffleball said:

Not what I said, and you know it. 

If you want to use sophist arguments, be my guest.

You said they only hit 1 HR in 22 innings against the Dodgers bullpen in games 3 and 7.  The Dodgers bullpen were considered their weakness going into the series and they were down Vesia.  That’s a pretty dismal performance for the bats.  
 

Scoring 35 runs in the equivalent of 8 and a third games is not exactly setting the world on fire either.  Our bullpen put up a ton of blanks and any ability by our hitters to plate a run wouod have won it.  You can’t put all of the blame on the pen.

[RA Whiffleball]

1 hour ago, mphenhef said:

You said they only hit 1 HR in 22 innings against the Dodgers bullpen in games 3 and 7.  The Dodgers bullpen were considered their weakness going into the series and they were down Vesia.  That’s a pretty dismal performance for the bats.  
 

Scoring 35 runs in the equivalent of 8 and a third games is not exactly setting the world on fire either.  Our bullpen put up a ton of blanks and any ability by our hitters to plate a run wouod have won it.  You can’t put all of the blame on the pen.

You have missed the point entirely, but carry on.

[max silver]

1 hour ago, RA Whiffleball said:

The bats were fine - we scored 34 runs in that series, and that was with Yamamoto starting 2 games.

You are making yet another reductive argument. The bats scored a whooping total of 5 runs in the last 2 games of the series and that's anything but fine.

[Spanky__99]

3 hours ago, jaysblue said:

Yeah, that’s a good point, and I should’ve mentioned it earlier. It’s very possible those two really bad starts were clearly affected by the illness he was dealing with.

Since then, he’s at least been passable and has kept the Jays in games. We’ve definitely had worse fill-in starters covering for injured arms in the past.

I know Lauer comes across as an annoying loudmouth and complainer, so he’s probably not as well-liked around here now as he was last season. But he needs to perform over his next start or two, otherwise he’s probably gone anyway.

88 MPH!!!!

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, RA Whiffleball said:

Nothing binary about my position.

It's called stating facts.

And I'm not here to ingratiate myself with anyone.

It seems if posters disagree with the party line, they get accused of having mental/personality disorders and are encouraged to leave the forum.

The truth hurts.

Wow dude, this s*** feels premeditated man? WTF?

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, BTS said:

How do you feel about the Boston Red Sox, new member?

😜

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, RA Whiffleball said:

We are the baseball equivalent of the dissenting opinion on the Supreme Court.

Absolutely premeditated, Stottlemeyers Bloody Chin, or of that ilk, right here.

[RA Whiffleball]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

You are making yet another reductive argument. The bats scored a whooping total of 5 runs in the last 2 games of the series and that's anything but fine.

Your brain is reductive.

[max silver]

32 minutes ago, RA Whiffleball said:

Your brain is reductive.

Ooh snappy comeback Ralph. I've been officially put on notice.