Is the window closing for Atkins and Shapiro?

[Eat My Shatkins]

I kind of get a kick out of the crowd wanting to run Atkins out of town. I get it, frustrated cause there are zero playoff wins.

 

But he's the guy that built a team deep enough to still make the playoffs despite hugely disappointing performances from their stars last season.

 

Vlad 1.0 fWAR, Kirk 1.6 fWAR, Manoah -0.4 fWAR, Springer 2.1 fWAR, Varsho 2.2 fWAR even Bo was only 3.6 fWAR, which was pathetic for him. All of those are below what's expected, some of them WAY below.

 

Still won 89 games.

[connorp]

Many Blue Jays prospects look great by stat-scouting but are all 24 or older... the couple of younger ones (Orelvis and Tiedemann) have a couple of warts (like hitting .200 and being kind of injured) that have prevented them from reaching the upper part of lists.

 

You never know exactly how things will work out, but I think there is still tonnes of hope, farm system has been dinged a little much just because the players don't fit the 'baseball America' archetype... which is younger athletic healthy guy that doesn't hit .200.

 

This is like saying you can be a fat person, but beautiful too. Body positive. This kind of thing may be why Toronto gets a lot of good fat players

[Brownie19]

This is like saying you can be a fat person, but beautiful too. Body positive. This kind of thing may be why Toronto gets a lot of good fat players

 

you're back? how disappointing.

[Spanky99]

you're back? how disappointing.

 

You should see him cry in our Fantasy Leagues chat, lol. The bigot's a winner...

 

[saskjayfan]

That's stupid though

 

They won't make a decision on that

 

That's like saying "if it's not sunny on September 10th he's fired"

 

It's actually nothing like saying if it's not sunny on September 10th he's fired. That's a random event, you have no control over. As a GM you have the ability to build a winning team. Anything can happen in the playoffs, but this is Atkins 9th year. It's about setting goals, and when those goals aren't achieved you move on. Outside of the team he inherited in 2016, none of his teams have won a playoff game. The team is spending in the luxury tax now. If you don't win a single playoff game over an 8 year span, you're not doing the job. I fully expect us to win a playoff game.

 

If things go south, you'll be here defending Atkins. Your man crush on him is a strong one.

[jaysblue]

Just a few years ago, the Blue Jays looked like a team on the rise and ready to contend for years to come. Guerrero and Bichette were leading the charge and the front office seemed to add impact players every offseason. However, the payoff has yet to materialize and Toronto's farm system now ranks in the bottom third of the league on most lists.

 

The Blue Jays hoped to model what the Dodgers have done by churning out prospects year after year to replenish the farm system and graduate some to help the team. Atkins has failed at that, with only a handful of homegrown players making a significant impact at the big-league level over the past few seasons.

 

If the team doesn't find a way to start racking up some postseason victories, it's fair to wonder if ownership might look to curb spending to a degree. The saving grace might be the recent renovations at Rogers Centre, which could force ownership's hand to remain aggressive as it looks to keep fans engaged and shelling out money to come to the ballpark.

 

Sizing up a crucial Blue Jays season

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2874232

 

They were talking about this on TSN Overdrive yesterday.

 

Blue Jays have put together winning teams every season in their competitive window under Atkins. The Jays have been pretty much like the Leafs. They have a solid team during the regular season, but when it comes to the Postseason, they haven't been able to take that next step or win that big game with this group.

 

I think Shapiro is safe regardless of what happens and stays here as long as he wants to stay in Toronto. If the Jays crash and burn however, Atkins is likely gone. If the Jays have another winning season and win a Postseason series, I think Atkins is kept around.

[jaysblue]

I don’t think that Shapiro will be fired, but at some point he’ll be moving on … and with ten years in the books and the renovations complete and with Bo & Vladdy perhaps gone, then maybe he moves into the commissioner’s office (or something) to be groomed to take over for Manfred haha

 

Yeah exactly. Shapiro likely could stay here in Toronto for as long as he wants. When he wants to leave, he will leave whether if that's to transform and leave his mark on another team/organization or moving into the commissioner's office with the sights of taking over for Manfred down the road.

[Laika]

It's actually nothing like saying if it's not sunny on September 10th he's fired. That's a random event, you have no control over. As a GM you have the ability to build a winning team. Anything can happen in the playoffs, but this is Atkins 9th year. It's about setting goals, and when those goals aren't achieved you move on. Outside of the team he inherited in 2016, none of his teams have won a playoff game. The team is spending in the luxury tax now. If you don't win a single playoff game over an 8 year span, you're not doing the job. I fully expect us to win a playoff game.

 

If things go south, you'll be here defending Atkins. Your man crush on him is a strong one.

 

But that's just so.... f***ing.... dumb

 

I understand that it's human nature to just hate losing and the Jays playoff track record makes them seem like losers, over the last few years, but everything that has happened in the playoffs still occurred within a meaningless little sample of zero statistical significance, over which Ross Atkins had basically zero influence.

 

Shapiro would never even factor that into a firing decision.

 

If Atkins gets fired it's pure scapegoat marketing, which I suppose teams do from time to time. Or it's a decision that is something like "being the 8th or 9th best GM in the sport simply is not good enough" which seems like a ridiculously high standard unless this is the 1995 to 2012 Yankees.

 

Fans are funny. Jays from 1994 to 2014 never made the playoffs, never won 90 games, maybe sniffed the postseason once.

Since 1994, the Jays have made the playoffs 5 times and won 89+ games 5 times. Three of each of those are under Shapiro and Atkins.

 

Fire 'em though!

 

How does nobody but me and my supporters see the obvious path to improvement from Atkins? Like, the organization's shortcomings over the last few years are not exactly secret. I don't get how Mr. Outside Hire is seen as a better bet to fix the problems than the competent incumbents. They hire good people, consistently make good transactions, consistently have good processes and move in the right directions.

 

Let Ross cook.

[Brownie19]

But that's just so.... f***ing.... dumb

 

I understand that it's human nature to just hate losing and the Jays playoff track record makes them seem like losers, over the last few years, but everything that has happened in the playoffs still occurred within a meaningless little sample of zero statistical significance, over which Ross Atkins had basically zero influence.

 

Shapiro would never even factor that into a firing decision.

 

If Atkins gets fired it's pure scapegoat marketing, which I suppose teams do from time to time. Or it's a decision that is something like "being the 8th or 9th best GM in the sport simply is not good enough" which seems like a ridiculously high standard unless this is the 1995 to 2012 Yankees.

 

Fans are funny. Jays from 1994 to 2014 never made the playoffs, never won 90 games, maybe sniffed the postseason once.

Since 1994, the Jays have made the playoffs 5 times and won 89+ games 5 times. Three of each of those are under Shapiro and Atkins.

 

Fire 'em though!

 

How does nobody but me and my supporters see the obvious path to improvement from Atkins? Like, the organization's shortcomings over the last few years are not exactly secret. I don't get how Mr. Outside Hire is seen as a better bet to fix the problems than the competent incumbents. They hire good people, consistently make good transactions, consistently have good processes and move in the right directions.

 

Let Ross cook.

 

Spot on. I was going to call out him out last night myself, but I feel like I've been banging that drum a bit too much. Thank you.

[deanmike]

Spot on. I was going to call out him out last night myself, but I feel like I've been banging that drum a bit too much. Thank you.

 

How does nobody but me and my supporters see the obvious path to improvement from Atkins? Like, the organization's shortcomings over the last few years are not exactly secret. I don't get how Mr. Outside Hire is seen as a better bet to fix the problems than the competent incumbents. They hire good people, consistently make good transactions, consistently have good processes and move in the right directions.

 

Let Ross cook.

 

You guys know Ross won't see this right? He won't love you any more than he does today for these valiant defense efforts.

[MikeM3]

Scott Harris probably clears just on the hiring of Chris Fetter.

 

Why schlep to add war through mlb transactions when you can just hire a pitching coach that adds a tick or two to every human who picks up a baseball.

[Laika]

You guys know Ross won't see this right? He won't love you any more than he does today for these valiant defense efforts.

 

I have a direct line to Ross

 

We shop at the same lube store

[RobinThicc]

It just depends on if you think this FO should lead another rebuild. Team is no more than two years away from entering one. Their prospect development/amateur scouting seems below average right now.

[deanmike]

I have a direct line to Ross

 

We shop at the same lube store

 

Ah okay make sense. I'm pretty sure I know what you both use the lube for, but won't outright say it as the trigger finger has been quick with some of u mods for bans recently.

[Laika]

Ah okay make sense. I'm pretty sure I know what you both use the lube for, but won't outright say it as the trigger finger has been quick with some of u mods for bans recently.

 

we share a hobby

 

restoring PT cruisers

[ColdPint]

I can’t foresee the Jays entering the 2025 season with Vlad and Bo unsigned in their free agent walk years.

 

How many in-season contract extensions are ever signed?

 

A retool/restock could happen pretty quickly given the talent on the roster but does the FO have the balls to do it?

[Laika]

I can’t foresee the Jays entering the 2025 season with Vlad and Bo unsigned in their free agent walk years.

 

How many in-season contract extensions are ever signed?

 

A retool/restock could happen pretty quickly given the talent on the roster but does the FO have the balls to do it?

 

Yeah a Bichette trade might be more likely than a Ross Atkins canning, if 2024 is another wet fart October.

 

One year of Corbin Burnes at $16M = DL Hall, Joey Ortiz, and pick #34.

 

Bichette might have similar value.

 

Gausman another big chip.

Vlad, who knows.

Smaller chips, Kirk and Varsho.

[ColdPint]

Yeah a Bichette trade might be more likely than a Ross Atkins canning, if 2024 is another wet fart October.

 

One year of Corbin Burnes at $16M = DL Hall, Joey Ortiz, and pick #34.

 

Bichette might have similar value.

 

Gausman another big chip.

Vlad, who knows.

Smaller chips, Kirk and Varsho.

 

If the Jays have Bo, or Vlad, on this roster entering 2025 without an extension it’s another failure by the front office.

 

Optically it’ll be rough to justify to the fanbase if you’re trading either - and, as we all know, the Jays are not good at PR - but what are the options? You have to get the biggest return possible and that’s an offseason trade rather than mid season.

 

Trade one, or both, and put all your cards in on a Soto?

[Laika]

If the Jays have Bo, or Vlad, on this roster entering 2025 without an extension it’s another failure by the front office.

 

Optically it’ll be rough to justify to the fanbase if you’re trading either - and, as we all know, the Jays are not good at PR - but what are the options? You have to get the biggest return possible and that’s an offseason trade rather than mid season.

 

Trade one, or both, and put all your cards in on a Soto?

 

Fans get over this s*** pretty quick

 

They'd cry about Bo for a few weeks then start to crush on whatever 50 FV prospect(s) came back the other way

[Stangstag]

Fans get over this s*** pretty quick

 

They'd cry about Bo for a few weeks then start to crush on whatever 50 FV prospect(s) came back the other way

 

Nope. If the prospect ended up not panning out, people would complain literally every single time whatever new SS we have strikes out.

 

Are you forgetting about Varsho last year? And if he continues to be bad this year.... yeesh

[MikeM3]

Nope. If the prospect ended up not panning out, people would complain literally every single time whatever new SS we have strikes out.

 

Are you forgetting about Varsho last year? And if he continues to be bad this year.... yeesh

 

Fans don't give a s*** if you win games. Especially not for Bichette who seemingly has no attachment here and appears hell bent on testing FA. Probably should have already been dealt.

[connorp]

you're back? how disappointing.

 

I told these guys I’m like the DT of the board now. No need to clarify those initials.

[Brownie19]

If the Jays have Bo, or Vlad, on this roster entering 2025 without an extension it’s another failure by the front office.

 

I don't understand this thinking.

 

List of 2025 FA's

 

Soto

Goldschmidt

Alonso

Bregman

Burnes

Max Fried

Bieber

 

These star players are all heading into their final season before free agency without an extension. Are all these GM's massive failures too?

[Laika]

Nope. If the prospect ended up not panning out, people would complain literally every single time whatever new SS we have strikes out.

 

Are you forgetting about Varsho last year? And if he continues to be bad this year.... yeesh

 

Well, yeah but the Varsho trade kind of had the worst possible first impression. Most of the time it doesn't work like that.

 

Just with Moreno having a good 2nd half, the D-Backs playoff run, Varsho's "aesthetics" in 2023 as a pop out artist and .200 hitter, etc.

[wilko]

Well, yeah but the Varsho trade kind of had the worst possible first impression. Most of the time it doesn't work like that.

 

Just with Moreno having a good 2nd half, the D-Backs playoff run, Varsho's "aesthetics" in 2023 as a pop out artist and .200 hitter, etc.

 

Jokes on them. Moreno's hitting .167 What a bum.

[jaysblue]

Jokes on them. Moreno's hitting .167 What a bum.

 

Gurriel has 10 RBI though! What a stud!

[Brownie19]

Gurriel has 10 RBI though! What a stud!

 

Gurriel getting 3 years $42M (with an opt out) is one of the most baffling signings of the offseason.

[Jays24]

If we miss the playoffs or get knocked out in embarrassing fashion in the Wild Card series again, Atkins has to go. At that point, Shapiro's clock needs to start ticking.

 

Let's see though, maybe the year we don't expect as much will be the year we finally get over the hump.

[burlingtonbandit]

Gurriel getting 3 years $42M (with an opt out) is one of the most baffling signings of the offseason.

 

IKF was 10x worse lol.

[Brownie19]

IKF was 10x worse lol.

 

OK? I'd strongly disagree.