2023 MLB Postseason Thread

[L54]

You f***ing guys need to stop crying over a 22 year old catcher who doesn’t know you exist

 

I would fire Atkins and wish somebody else got to put together the 2024 team but not because of one trade

 

Grown men simping for this guy is embarrassing

[Jaysareus]

That trade was embarrassing.

[deanmike]

I’m trying to pretend Moreno was never a Blue Jay. It makes it a little easier to digest.

 

Indeed, copium does make terrible trades like this easier to digest. Especially when the clown who pulled the trigger on it is inexplicably still employed.

[deanmike]

"Kirk f***ing sucks. He's fat and he won't age well."

 

"We should have traded Kirk for something good instead of Moreno."

 

Should have traded Kirk for whatever the best offer from any other team in the league was. Didn't necessarily have to be for a good return as you suggest. Not like Atkins made a good return a necessity when trading Moreno, he was perfectly fine with getting fleeced.

[Jaysareus]

When Kirk hits into a double play the fielder could read a novel and still throw over and get him out in plenty of time.

[Jimcanuck]

Should have traded Kirk for whatever the best offer from any other team in the league was. Didn't necessarily have to be for a good return as you suggest. Not like Atkins made a good return a necessity when trading Moreno, he was perfectly fine with getting fleeced.

 

Gurriel and Varsho same fWAR in 2023, 2.1.

 

Kirk 1.6 fWAR, 422 PA

Moreno 1.7 fWAR, 380 PA

 

Jays would have been a better team in 2023 WITHOUT considering the WAR contribution of whatever the Kirk return could have been.

 

Hindsight of course, but as the ex-BJMB Sherriff and Kirk fanboy will attest (because we debated this ad nauseum before the trade), I advocated to keep Moreno and Jansen, and trade Kirk, in numerous pre-trade posts.

[Cynical]

Not even every game, ANY hit he gets brings up all the whining.

 

With good reason. What a collosal failure of a trade.

[BigCecil]

You f***ing guys need to stop crying over a 22 year old catcher who doesn’t know you exist

 

I would fire Atkins and wish somebody else got to put together the 2024 team but not because of one trade

 

Grown men simping for this guy is embarrassing

 

For sure.

 

Its takes me back to every Syndergaard Mets and RA start in 2015 & 16, AA haters filled the board with endless righteous posts & memes.

 

Got a text from my bud in Scottsdale AZ this am. "This team is insane. Need to thank the Jays". lol.

 

I just responded PHI is going to win and in the long run Varsho will be better, but I feel a bit like I'm whistling past the graveyard. lol. Lets hope not. Time will tell now.

[gruber92]

Gurriel and Varsho same fWAR in 2023, 2.1.

 

Kirk 1.6 fWAR, 422 PA

Moreno 1.7 fWAR, 380 PA

 

Jays would have been a better team in 2023 WITHOUT considering the WAR contribution of whatever the Kirk return could have been.

 

Hindsight of course, but as the ex-BJMB Sherriff and Kirk fanboy will attest (because we debated this ad nauseum before the trade), I advocated to keep Moreno and Jansen, and trade Kirk, in numerous pre-trade posts.

 

It was a pretty easy assessment that Shatkins should have sold high on Kirk last off season and kept the athletic cornerstone piece in Moreno. Ross had horse blinders on for Varsho and did whatever he had to do to get him instead of thinking broadly on how we could have improved the outfield defence with a LHH. KK was enough to add to the outfield defence while we could have used a lesser bat for late inning defensive purposes. Throw in the fact that Jansen and Kirk are not that good at throwing out base runners and it makes you want to vomit.

 

This trade can't really be assessed properly until the end of next season but so far it's not looking good.

[jaysblue]

Another great game here in Arizona.

 

Great night of baseball

 

Yeah awesome night for Postseason baseball. Epic comebacks by the Astros and D'Backs.

 

Happy now we have a series in the NLCS.

[Olerud363]

This trade can't really be assessed properly until the end of next season but so far it's not looking good.

 

Agreed, but it wasn't a disaster for 2023. Injuries for prospects really suck because it increases uncertainty and reduces sample size to determine what you have. Moreno and Tiederman injuries both cost Jays a chance at a true difference making trade for a super star.

 

Imagine Moreno having a full season in 2021... would have been an unquestionable and deserving best prospect in baseball. Probably could have done Moreno for Jose Ramirez one for one if Moreno had a full 2021. Same with Tiederman. Because of their injuries both ended up being much less valuable trade chips.

[L54]

For sure.

 

Its takes me back to every Syndergaard Mets and RA start in 2015 & 16, AA haters filled the board with endless righteous posts & memes.

 

Got a text from my bud in Scottsdale AZ this am. "This team is insane. Need to thank the Jays". lol.

 

I just responded PHI is going to win and in the long run Varsho will be better, but I feel a bit like I'm whistling past the graveyard. lol. Lets hope not. Time will tell now.

 

The difference for me is everyone hated the Dickey trade right from

the time it was announced. This one was generally well received with some people not liking it. Pretty standard reaction to any trade

 

I don’t think it will ever be a net positive but it’s not like they got nothing in return. One of the games best defensive players playing a premium position

 

Tonight would be a sick game to be at in Phoenix. Wheeler vs Gallen after last nights battle

[gruber92]

Agreed, but it wasn't a disaster for 2023. Injuries for prospects really suck because it increases uncertainty and reduces sample size to determine what you have. Moreno and Tiederman injuries both cost Jays a chance at a true difference making trade for a super star.

 

Imagine Moreno having a full season in 2021... would have been an unquestionable and deserving best prospect in baseball. Probably could have done Moreno for Jose Ramirez one for one if Moreno had a full 2021. Same with Tiederman. Because of their injuries both ended up being much less valuable trade chips.

 

All the more reason to hang on to Moreno for at least another year, his upside is way too high. Moreno should have been treated like a priority but instead he was dealt as if Varsho was going to put us over the top this year. We already had KK signed prior to the trade also. f*** man, Ross is a f***ing loser.

[Spanky__99]

All the more reason to hang on to Moreno for at least another year, his upside is way too high. Moreno should have been treated like a priority but instead he was dealt as if Varsho was going to put us over the top this year. We already had KK signed prior to the trade also. f*** man, Ross is a f***ing loser.

 

[deanmike]

Gurriel and Varsho same fWAR in 2023, 2.1.

 

Kirk 1.6 fWAR, 422 PA

Moreno 1.7 fWAR, 380 PA

 

Jays would have been a better team in 2023 WITHOUT considering the WAR contribution of whatever the Kirk return could have been.

 

Hindsight of course, but as the ex-BJMB Sherriff and Kirk fanboy will attest (because we debated this ad nauseum before the trade), I advocated to keep Moreno and Jansen, and trade Kirk, in numerous pre-trade posts.

 

Yeah it should have been obvious to everyone. You have 2 non-obese catchers and 1 obese catcher. Odd one out should have been clear. The only possible argument against moving Kirk that would have made sense involves Jansen, but IMO I still take the injury prone catcher who won't regress physically to a full time DH in the near future, over the obese catcher whose obesity will cause him to regress to a full time DH in the very near future.

 

Main point is, Moreno should have been treated like the DBacks treated Carroll with their OF surplus (he was the only untouchable). My rankings for catcher I wanted out last offseason were 1 Kirk, 2 Jansen, and Moreno not even a consideration to move. And again (because the Kirk fangirls keep assuming the other side thinks this way) no I don't think Kirk would have garnered a similar value return to Moreno, but I still don't give a f***. He should have been the one out the door no matter how much worse the return would have been.

[jaysblue]

The difference for me is everyone hated the Dickey trade right from

the time it was announced. This one was generally well received with some people not liking it. Pretty standard reaction to any trade

 

I don’t think it will ever be a net positive but it’s not like they got nothing in return. One of the games best defensive players playing a premium position

 

Tonight would be a sick game to be at in Phoenix. Wheeler vs Gallen after last nights battle

 

Yeah I wasn't a fan of the Dickey trade at the time it happened as well. AA's worst trade for sure. Thought the Jays bought high on a 38-year-old knuckleballer coming off an NL Cy Young. Plus the Jays had to f***ing roster Josh Thole lol. Dickey wasn't anything special during his time with the Jays, but he was consistent and reliable in terms of making his 33-34 starts and pitching over 200 innings. Still, missing out on the seasons Syndergaard had in 2015 and 2016 really hurts. Imagine in 2016 a rotation with Syndergaard, Stroman and Sanchez. Even in 2018 and 2019, Thor posted 4 WAR seasons so he was still a valuable asset. Travis d'Arnaud was solid in 2014 and 2015 as well. Jays got hosed.

 

I still think Varsho could be a solid player. Like you said, the trade overall may never be a net positive but as long as Varsho can give the Jays 3-4 WAR seasons moving forward with excellent defense in CF, he'll help this team over the next 2-3 seasons.

[Spanky__99]

Hahaha... *smh*

[leaffie]

Really, you got up this early, learned how to use capitals, to add that to the conversation.

Go away little boy.

[Spanky__99]

Really, you got up this early, learned how to use capitals, to add that to the conversation.

Go away little boy.

 

Manchild.

[Jonn]

You f***ing guys need to stop crying over a 22 year old catcher who doesn’t know you exist

 

I would fire Atkins and wish somebody else got to put together the 2024 team but not because of one trade

 

Grown men simping for this guy is embarrassing

 

He’s actually 23. Get your f***ing facts straight.

[connorp]

Manchild.

 

He basically just said get a hobby hobby, geez

[jaysblue]

Connor last night after the D'Backs tied up the series 2-2.

 

[Jays24]

Haha I've never seen someone have as many enemies on any online forum as Spanky does. That's quite the talent you got there bud lol.

[Spanky__99]

Connor last night after the D'Backs tied up the series 2-2.

 

 

He didn't make the bet, man.

[Spanky__99]

Haha I've never seen someone have as many enemies on any online forum as Spanky does. That's quite the talent you got there bud lol.

 

Remember when you didn't want KK and than went full Stan on the guy this season, those were good times, eh?

[connorp]

He didn't make the bet, man.

 

I wouldn’t be sweating it. Phillies have it in the bag. Keep the receipt, biotch

[Spanky__99]

I wouldn’t be sweating it. Phillies have it in the bag. Keep the receipt, biotch

 

Why are you such a retard connor?

[connorp]

Why are you such a retard connor?

 

Boxy told me to never change and I think it’s solid advice.

[Brownie19]

Dusty is going to get crucified for sticking with Verlander into the 6th

 

No no...fans only complain if you pull them early.

[BigCecil]

The difference for me is everyone hated the Dickey trade right from

the time it was announced. This one was generally well received with some people not liking it. Pretty standard reaction to any trade

 

I don’t think it will ever be a net positive but it’s not like they got nothing in return. One of the games best defensive players playing a premium position

 

Tonight would be a sick game to be at in Phoenix. Wheeler vs Gallen after last nights battle

 

I agree the RA trade was universally panned from the get go. They got 800 semi s***** IP and 7-8 WAR from him. You cant argue that was a solid trade. About all he gave them was innings eaten. Painful to watch.

 

My point was only about the endless complaining was incessant throughout 15 and 16 when we played in the League Championship series. Our first playoffs since '93. I was focused on that. The deal was done in 2013 but complaining went on years. Unlike say the Berrios deal where we moved 2 top prospects, Berrios rebounded this year and the prospects we gave up turned out to be s***. Thor exploded on the scene in '15 which heightened the anger. Bit like Moreno and to a lesser extent LGJ this playoffs.

 

For what they gave up Jays need to get more than elite D - the next 2/3 years will be telling. Nobody knows at this point really how its going to shake out. So much can change for Moreno and Varsho. LGJ is gone from the evaluation now other than '23.

 

Ya, I am really looking forward to the Wheeler Gallen rematch. Playoffs have been awesome this year.

Edited October 21, 2023 by BigCecil