Time To Win GDT Yankees @ Your Toronto Blue Jays

[Stangstag]

I give him some credit too. For this year its worked out well, and its a good thing because its a mo' money $93M/year entirely off the FA shelf rotation.

 

Getting Ryu and Green back worked out well, as it was never a sure bet. Green could have been another Kirby Yates. Losing Manoah did not.

 

We got very lucky on rotation health. No Robbie Ray or McClahanan situations.

 

I don’t really think it’s totally fair to say we got “lucky” with the rotation without also acknowledging that the front office strongly considered health and innings with the guys we assembled.

 

The front office has specifically targeted guys who have great bills of health for the rotation (after the Ryu deal of course) and it’s worked in their favor.

[max silver]

I don’t really think it’s totally fair to say we got “lucky” with the rotation without also acknowledging that the front office strongly considered health and innings with the guys we assembled.

 

The front office has specifically targeted guys who have great bills of health for the rotation (after the Ryu deal of course) and it’s worked in their favor.

 

The organization has had a lot of success avoiding major injuries to their rotation for several years now. Eventually it should be acknowledged that it's more than dumb luck that has allowed the team to field consistently healthy starting rotations.

[BigCecil]

I don’t really think it’s totally fair to say we got “lucky” with the rotation without also acknowledging that the front office strongly considered health and innings with the guys we assembled.

 

The front office has specifically targeted guys who have great bills of health for the rotation (after the Ryu deal of course) and it’s worked in their favor.

 

Ya, I buy that to some degree. Ryu is a big exception. We have 5 more years to pay Berrios - 2 on Hound and 3 on Gausman. Many miles to go. I think SEA also thought Ray would stay durable when they signed him too. Always comes down to risk assessment and luck. If the argument is the FO thought this through and in considering the deals and made then right bets its hard to disagree now.

 

And Max I never said it was "dumb luck". I'd call it smart luck.

Edited September 29, 2023 by BigCecil

[Omar]

Don't forget another variable is the type of pitcher ie. the physicality of his pitching style. Ray was/is an all effort type of pitcher (tight pants notwithstanding).

[Brownie19]

Will give Atkins the credit he deserves for putting this rotation together, but I do agree with your statement as well to an extent. Jays were extremely lucky with their rotation staying healthy all season. If they lose one of Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, or Kikuchi for an extended period of time, could have been trouble. There was really no safety net considering this team struggled for a bit to replace Manoah until Ryu was healthy again.

 

I mean you could also argue we got a little unlucky with some of our 'depth'.

 

- Getting nothing out of Manoah

- Ricky T injuries

- Zulu can't throw strikes

- Zach Thompson and Mitch White should have been decent depth guys, but they weren't

 

That's 4-5 more guys who the team probably expected would be able to give them some starts this year if/when needed.

 

It's not like Atkins went into this season with 0 depth in the minors. He made moves to add depth and we have some arms who are close, but most of them had terrible seasons for one reason or another. Francis and the return of Ryu were successful. Depth is hard to get, which is probably why the Jays targeted a guy like Bassitt over a Kyle Gibson (or maybe Eovaldi). He knew we needed reliability over variability and/or upside.

[BigCecil]

Don't forget another variable is the type of pitcher ie. the physicality of his pitching style. Ray was/is an all effort type of pitcher (tight pants notwithstanding).

 

I hear you, but Hound gets its allllll into his delivery. Reaches way back to get 94. Its kind of a funky delivery.

 

They have done a million studies on trying to predict arm care...prevent arm injuries' and whats best best practices are. Pitch counts, routines, max efforts, diet, strengthening, stretching etc etc etc.

 

I went through endless seminars on it for Baseball Alberta etc who got ahold of detailed analysis for MLB etc. At the day there are some key basics. but its pretty dam random unfortunately.

[Laika]

Yeah of course, that makes things easier. But still given the injuries we see with arms, no matter the track record, you think there is no factor of luck in the equation at all for the rotation staying healthy all season?

 

For someone who uses the term "luck" on here a lot.

 

I didn't say that.

 

Toronto probably did get lucky with SP health this year. I say probably because you can kind of consider Manoah to be a 100% loss due to health issues, lol.

 

BUT Toronto would have projected to have the healthiest rotation in baseball, pre-season! At least I bet they would.

 

So the level of LUCK that happened may be minor.

 

You can also cause your own LUCK sometimes in baseball. The Jays trainers may be part of the LUCK TEAM.

[Laika]

I mean one of the "Aces" from 2022 got so fat and gross in the offseason that all of his stuff and effectiveness disappeared

 

miss me with the "so lucky with the rotation health" ********

 

they lost Manoah to the obesity epidemic. RIP Manoah. f***ing carbs. When will Trudeau do something about carbs!?

 

 

 

TJS is at least a technical fix. 12 months off and you are 100% again. Obesity is insidious. Eating disorders are with you forever. Keeping weight off has a 95% failure rate.

[G-Snarls]

Acquire veterans with clean mechanics and pristine health records and this can happen!

 

So not Montaz or Sale?

 

[Laika]

So not Montaz or Sale?

 

 

Or Carlos Rodon lmfao

[BatFlip]

Is there a way to quantify how much our improved defense played a role in the success of our pitching staff? Maybe on an overall basis? Just curious

 

I was wondering about the same thing.

 

Depending on how much stock you put in DRS, the Jays are #1 in the league this year with 82 defensive runs saved, compared to 44 last year. A simple calculation of the difference over the course of the year would be about -0.24 per game to the pitching rotation's ERA. Not small potatoes. With all other things being equal, that's the difference between Kikuch having a 3.82 ERA with this year's defence vs. a 4.06 ERA with last year's.

 

Not sure if this holds water, but seems to pass the sniff test.

[Jonn]

Congrats....you're up tomorrow as well. Don't be late.

 

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