General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[John_Havok]

People didn't know it's not great to lose FA's for nothing before Van Vleet?

 

When they like certain players more, it makes them feel it more yes.

[Frenchsoup]

Cronenworth , the Padres have no money and he's a really top notch infeilder

[deanmike]

Trade Manoah for Kim.

 

Sign Soler to DH.

 

Sign another OF with pop like Duvall.

 

Bring back Ryu on a cheap one-year deal to warm up the No. 5 spot in the rotation.

 

Lineup:

 

RF Springer

SS Bichette

1B Guerrero Jr.

DH Soler

2B Kim

C Jansen/Kirk

LF Duvall/Kiermier

CF Varsho

3B Schneider/IKF

 

Rotation:

1. Gausman

2. Berrios

3. Bassitt

4. Kikuchi

5. Ryu

 

Boom!

 

How would the Jays fit all these additions into the 18M they have left under the 2nd luxury tax threshold? Manoah for Kim alone is a 7.3M increase, although I see that there is only 1 spot left on your roster for a position player. If you give that roster spot to Clement/Horwitz and ship out both Biggio and Espinal that's 6.9M in salary combined which pretty much covers the Manoah for Kim trade.

 

Curious to know how you fit Soler+Duvall+Ryu into roughly 17.5M total, although I guess shipping out relievers like Yimi+Richards who only have 1 year before FA left would free up another 8.5M so I guess you could say up to maybe 26M total. But that's only if the salaries of Biggio+Espinal+Garcia+Richards are all moved. Also has to be factored in that Shatkins like to leave in season wiggle room for the deadline so they won't use every dollar that they have left under the budget.

[wamco]

I think we’ll end up going into 2nd tax penalty this season. Otherwise I don’t think we give 10.5 to green and 7.5 to IKF

[JaysAllMighty]

Manoah was seen as a big baby last year. But then what happened with Berrios being pulled early, a collective WTF from the players and then Schneider being thrown under bus, Manoah was partially vindicated in my eyes. In that it certainly wasn't 100% his fault as initial optics indicated. We had Atkins acting like a weaselly weenie two months later. Who knows what kind of conversation those two had in private. Especially if Manoah's size and temperament gives Atkins PTSD from his high school years. Reasonable to think that Jays FO can be evasive or non-direct with Manoah because they are a little bit scared of him. Then the 25 yo who tasted his first bit of adversity is left to navigate the situation all by himself. Then does what every person his age has been trained to do. Cry on social media when things don't go his way.

 

Schneider is Shatkins cuck

[deanmike]

I think we’ll end up going into 2nd tax penalty this season. Otherwise I don’t think we give 10.5 to green and 7.5 to IKF

 

Even if you are correct about this, here's 1 thing I can 100% guarantee you. Jays opening day payroll last season was 5M lower than their season end payroll and they only spent roughly 4.7M into the 2nd threshold last season.

 

If I'm gonna be optimistic and agree with you that ownership greenlights the 2nd threshold for the 2nd season in a row, they will definitely cap their offseason spending at just under the 2nd threshold and spend into the threshold using in season wiggle room again.

[Jays24]

2023-24 offseason so far in summary:

 

Plane tracking was the highlight of the offseason so far lol

[Marew]

A lot of upset people on Reddit over that podcast guy saying Canada jays fans dont understand baseball and over the l”are you related to coach Schneider” joke comment.

 

Meanwhile this MLB female reporter asked the same question back in august on their interview 8 min mark.

 

[jaysblue]

I think we’ll end up going into 2nd tax penalty this season. Otherwise I don’t think we give 10.5 to green and 7.5 to IKF

 

Yeah you would hope and it most likely needs to happen if this team wants to take that next step forward. Would be a huge disappointment if this team doesn't add a power bat like Soler or Hoskins or JDM because they don't have the salary space available, when they went out and signed IKF to $7.5M, picked up the options on Green at $10.5M and signed Rodriguez who likely pans out as a No.4/5 starter or solid BP arm at $8M. I have no issues with those signings and picking up Green's option, but this team needed to address the lack of power in this lineup and would be a shame if there isn't anymore room left in the payroll to sign a big bat like Soler or someone.

 

Still time left in the offseason and overall has been a very slow offseason in terms of FA signings. Will reserve judgement until ST starts.

[BigCecil]

I wouldn't say he has "zero trade value" right now, but yeah it's definitely at an all-time low. Definitely not opposed to keeping him and hoping he bounces back especially if there aren't any good deals out there! If he doesn't show any improvement in 2024, then his trade value is likely zero.

 

Its too low. Got to keep him. The whole point of control = Control. If he is disgruntled so what? Let him get over it in BUFF if need be.

 

If can ever get back to '22 and '23 ish, he is a solid 3-4 in rotation. He was always over hyped and never should have been the opening day '23 SP over Gausman.

[Cbert]

Yeah you would hope and it most likely needs to happen if this team wants to take that next step forward. Would be a huge disappointment if this team doesn't add a power bat like Soler or Hoskins or JDM because they don't have the salary space available, when they went out and signed IKF to $7.5M, picked up the options on Green at $10.5M and signed Rodriguez who likely pans out as a No.4/5 starter or solid BP arm at $8M. I have no issues with those signings and picking up Green's option, but this team needed to address the lack of power in this lineup and would be a shame if there isn't anymore room left in the payroll to sign a big bat like Soler or someone.

 

Still time left in the offseason and overall has been a very slow offseason in terms of FA signings. Will reserve judgement until ST starts.

 

Looking at those signings, Rogers must be okay with the team going up to but not over the second tier threshold (for the right signings). I think Spotrac has the Jays around 216 (est. 19m for Vlad). Even if he goes a bit higher that’s still close to 40m plus another 10m in salaries you could jettison.

 

I think the Jays are waiting out the big guys like a few other teams to see if they can get a cheaper deal. May still have a shot something like Bellinger and then trade Manoah/Kikuchi for an IF like Kim, Adames or Polanco.

[Terminator]

A lot of upset people on Reddit over that podcast guy saying Canada jays fans dont understand baseball and over the l”are you related to coach Schneider” joke comment.

 

Meanwhile this MLB female reporter asked the same question back in august on their interview 8 min mark.

 

 

Hmm is Erik Kratz right? Is your average Jays fan less informed than other fan bases?

 

I think that definitely used to be the case. Seems like baseball is just integrated into American culture more than it is in Canada. But the team has been more successful over the past 10 years so I think that maybe your average Jays fan is paying more attention these days.

[Marew]

Every team will have fans that don’t know the game. Most kids are exposed to t ball and little league in BC where I grew up.

 

If you polled 100,000 random people across Canada you’d have less baseball knowledge than USA but from the actual total fan bases I’m sure it’s not much different.

[wamco]

Looking at those signings, Rogers must be okay with the team going up to but not over the second tier threshold (for the right signings). I think Spotrac has the Jays around 216 (est. 19m for Vlad). Even if he goes a bit higher that’s still close to 40m plus another 10m in salaries you could jettison.

 

I think the Jays are waiting out the big guys like a few other teams to see if they can get a cheaper deal. May still have a shot something like Bellinger and then trade Manoah/Kikuchi for an IF like Kim, Adames or Polanco.

 

You are forgetting the 25m or so in benefits or whatever else in addition to payroll that counts toward the payroll figure

[Cbert]

You are forgetting the 25m or so in benefits or whatever else in addition to payroll that counts toward the payroll figure

 

Oh. Did not know that was counted against the CBT. Thanks!

[Jays24]

When the offseason began, I truly thought the Jays were a Rodriguez and IKF away from winning the World Series. Said no one ever lol.

 

Come on Atkins, pull a rabbit out of your hat to really improve the team. One of Chapman/Bellinger and one of J.D/Soler/Hoskins.

[Jays24]

You are forgetting the 25m or so in benefits or whatever else in addition to payroll that counts toward the payroll figure

 

Does anyone have a ballpark figure on how much we are likely to have left to spend?

[Jonn]

The fact that the Jays are so limited to watch they can spend is exactly why I argued not to have Yimi Garcia option vest making 6 million. Espinal making 2.7 million annoys me as well. Instead we have 18m to find an everyday 3B. Add an Outfielder and a DH.

 

Piss poor asset management. Everyone is saying we can easily trade those guys though. Who wants a middle reliever making 6 million lol.

[Jays24]

The fact that the Jays are so limited to watch they can spend is exactly why I argued not to have Yimi Garcia option vest making 6 million. Espinal making 2.7 million annoys me as well. Instead we have 18m to find an everyday 3B. Add an Outfielder and a DH.

 

Piss poor asset management. Everyone is saying we can easily trade those guys though. Who wants a middle reliever making 6 million lol.

 

While I agree that I haven't liked how we've used our money this offseason, I'm sure they saw this as the better alternative to overpaying Chapman/Bellinger. I still think we'll sign a DH but this lineup could actually be worse on paper than last seasons and no one thought that was going to happen. Last years team was absolutely grueling to watch and little has been done to change that.

[deanmike]

Could very well end up being less than 18M depending on what happens with Vlad in arb. His ask was 19.9M (which is the assumption I used for the 18M remaining projection) and probably wins his case if it gets that far.

 

But if the Jays end up coming to a Bo type arb avoidance agreement with him (let's say a 2 year extension that walks him to FA like Bo's 3 year extension walks him to FA), the AAV (and luxury tax hit) will almost certainly be higher than 19.9M.

 

IIRC Bo was not projected to make 11.2M in arb the year he signed his extension but that's what the AAV of his extension is.

[wamco]

Does anyone have a ballpark figure on how much we are likely to have left to spend?

 

I’m hoping enough for a dh and an OF to play vs lefties.

 

I’ve talked myself into being ok to start season with platoon at 3b (biggio/ikf) and 2b (Schneider/espinal)

[Jays24]

I’m hoping enough for a dh and an OF to play vs lefties.

 

I’ve talked myself into being ok to start season with platoon at 3b (biggio/ikf) and 2b (Schneider/espinal)

 

Grichuk and Solar it is lol. IFK being our regular 3B is gonna make me puke. Still gonna hold out hope that we can bring Chappy back on a 4/80 deal or something and move Espy for whatever you can get.

 

RF Springer

SS Bo

1B Vlad

DH Soler

C Kirk/Jansen

3B Chapman

LF Varsho/Grichuk

2B Biggio/Schneider

CF KK

 

Back to being right handed heavy because all our lefties suck lol.

[wamco]

The fact that the Jays are so limited to watch they can spend is exactly why I argued not to have Yimi Garcia option vest making 6 million. Espinal making 2.7 million annoys me as well. Instead we have 18m to find an everyday 3B. Add an Outfielder and a DH.

 

Piss poor asset management. Everyone is saying we can easily trade those guys though. Who wants a middle reliever making 6 million lol.

 

I believe I brought this up Friday actually and it was too hard of a concept for Spankme

To comprehend.

Really hard to not allow a vesting option though as the deal is made in good faith. See Thomas, Frank. Yimi was a good soldier and deserves it. Would be an awful look for future free agents as well.

I’ve been for freeing up 9m by moving yimi and espinal all offseason and I like both players but I feel

We have the pieces to replace them sufficiently.

[Laika]

The fact that the Jays are so limited to watch they can spend is exactly why I argued not to have Yimi Garcia option vest making 6 million. Espinal making 2.7 million annoys me as well. Instead we have 18m to find an everyday 3B. Add an Outfielder and a DH.

 

Piss poor asset management. Everyone is saying we can easily trade those guys though. Who wants a middle reliever making 6 million lol.

 

Everybody would want him

 

John Brebbia just got that much money and he's half as good

 

Jays could move Yimi or Richards or Biggio or Espinal in five seconds if they wanted but why the f*** would they do it right now? They could do it after they sign somebody big. Lmao

[deanmike]

Only 2 things left in the offseason for the Jays with a maximum of 18M to work with under the 2nd tax threshold: settling Vlad's arb case and signing Soler/JDM as the DH/OF add (assuming no Joc because he reportedly wants to stay on the west coast).

 

Your 2024 Blue Jays (Opening day luxury tax commitments: 256.9M, just under the 2nd threshold):

 

C Jansen/Kirk

1B Vlad

2B Schneider/Biggio/Espinal

3B Biggio/IKF/Espinal

SS Bichette

LF Varsho/Schneider

CF KK/Varsho

RF Springer/Soler

DH Soler or JDM

13th position player who barely plays but is cheap: Clement

 

5 SP: Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt, Kikuchi, Manoah/White/Yariel

8 Relievers: Romano, Swanson, Green, Mayza, Garcia, Richards, 2 of Cabrera/Yariel/White

 

1 of Manoah/White/Yariel/Cabrera will not make the team to start (2-3 of them are optionable depending on if there's some kind of minor league assignment clause in Yariel's deal).

 

Garcia/Richards/Biggio/Espinal also represent roughly 15M total in 2024 AAV that can be shipped out, but they currently all hold 26-man roster spots and specific roles so could be tough to replace some of them with cheaper guys.

Edited January 22, 2024 by deanmike

[Abomination]

You'd have to think the Jays could probably move Bassett if they wanted to as well, especially if they were receiving a bigger contract in return from someone desperate for a good starter and a little tight on their finances. It's possible we could address a hole that way as well, and we probably have the depth now that we could.

[Jays24]

You'd have to think the Jays could probably move Bassett if they wanted to as well, especially if they were receiving a bigger contract in return from someone desperate for a good starter and a little tight on their finances. It's possible we could address a hole that way as well, and we probably have the depth now that we could.

 

We've been hoping to take advantage of the Padres or the Marlins but there's been no follow up rumours sadly. Thought a few teams would want to cut salary... I guess there's still time...

[Terminator]

Compare Espinal at his salary to the FA infield options and you’ll quickly realize that not only could he be traded but he could probably get you something decent. Same goes for Biggio and even Clement is worth a little bit.

 

Yimi Garcia is a 7th inning guy and has value too.

 

With a stacked bullpen and IKF in the fold we could trade all of the above for salary relief and diff stuff if we need too.

[max silver]

You'd have to think the Jays could probably move Bassett if they wanted to as well, especially if they were receiving a bigger contract in return from someone desperate for a good starter and a little tight on their finances. It's possible we could address a hole that way as well, and we probably have the depth now that we could.

 

Who replaces the 200 innings that Bassitt provided though? I really don't understand how there is the thought that the Blue Jays suddenly have an excess of depth after the Rodriguez signing as it's far from a given that he will even succeed in a swing man role.

[deanmike]

Compare Espinal at his salary to the FA infield options and you’ll quickly realize that not only could he be traded but he could probably get you something decent. Same goes for Biggio and even Clement is worth a little bit.

 

Yimi Garcia is a 7th inning guy and has value too.

 

With a stacked bullpen and IKF in the fold we could trade all of the above for salary relief and diff stuff if we need too.

 

Who would then fill the roster spots of Biggio and Espinal?

 

Steamer600 projects Espinal at 1.9 fWAR and Biggio at 1.2. In the system already, Alan Roden, Clement, Horwitz, Tanner Morris, Otto Lopez, Barger, Palmegiani, and Leo Jimenez are all projected in the 1.1-1.7 fWAR range.

 

Although subtracting Biggio and Espinal also subtracts PAs covered at 3B considering they are both as of now going to be part of a three way 3B platoon along with IKF.

 

Clement doesn't even count because he makes league minimum. So trading him and replacing him with a guy making league minimum wouldn't provide any luxury tax relief.

Edited January 21, 2024 by deanmike