Manoah Demoted

[WryNGinger]

It's 100% the pitch clock and Manoah's cardio causing all of this.

 

The guy would get exhaust last season and would take extra time walking around the mound to gather himself and talk to a himself to stay in his mechanics. He can't do any do that now so can't gather his breath and continuously falls out of his mechanics.

 

Agree with this. Plus he looks a lot heavier this year so his cardio might be worse.

 

I love Kirky and Manoah in principle, but honestly to be a professional athlete and have conditioning affect your performance is 100% ********. Kiermaier should take some of these guys out back and slap them. I respect hustle that equals a career over talent any day.

[Laika]

Vlad, Kirk, and Manoah are all fat shits.

 

Toronto was infected by woke culture. Beautiful at any size! No fat shaming in the clubhouse!

[Laika]

That's only a half troll.

 

There are MLB organizations that call out their own players for things like being out of shape. Toronto would never dare, now here we are.

[Olerud363]

I dont know it looks like to me he is sweating a lot more than last year and today he let the pitch clock run all the way down to 1 or 2 almost every time without even checking on the runners. I see a lot of comments saying his weight, his cardio or the pitch clock are lazy excuses, but it could be that simple.

 

I totally don't understand why people are dismissing this. There is absolutely variation on how fast people can recover from an explosive effort. Pitch clock is 15 to 20 seconds, and the recovery time for a pitcher between pitches, follows a statistical distribution like every other variable.

 

So recovery time varies from a a to b, likely something like 10 to 25 seconds, and Manoah could be closer to 25 thus is really hurt by the pitch clock.

[Stangstag]

There’s a lot of people on reddit that think Manoah’s problem right now is some kind of injury or dead arm due to the innings increase from 130 to 200+ last year.

 

Any merit to that?

[TheHurl]

There’s a lot of people on reddit that think Manoah’s problem right now is some kind of injury or dead arm due to the innings increase from 130 to 200+ last year.

 

Any merit to that?

 

Merit to being on reddit? None that I can see!

 

I think it would be more obvious in his velo if it were a dead arm. It's not getting progressively slower. Just not ever hitting spots.

[jaysblue]

So that guy on MLB Network was right all along.

[Olerud363]

Merit to being on reddit? None that I can see!

 

I think it would be more obvious in his velo if it were a dead arm. It's not getting progressively slower. Just not ever hitting spots.

 

An injury caused by over-use can result in loss of control before loss in velocity. Or at least that's what Buck says. So maybe not technically 'dead arm' but if there is an injury perhaps a result of the huge innings increase from 2019 to 2022, though it is unclear what he (or any minor league Pitchers) did in 2020 to simulate a workload.

[THANOS]

There’s a lot of people on reddit that think Manoah’s problem right now is some kind of injury or dead arm due to the innings increase from 130 to 200+ last year.

 

Any merit to that?

 

I doubt it.

 

I think it's 100% the pitch clock combined with his cardio.

 

If his cardio were great, he would have no problem meeting the 15 seconds and remaining in his mechanics. He's tired and can't do it, that's the issue.

[RobinThicc]

Cant even phantom IL him cause theres no one to take his spot lmfao.

 

Brutal s***

[THANOS]

Cant even phantom IL him cause theres no one to take his spot lmfao.

 

Brutal s***

 

Bowden Francis will up to 80 pitches after his next start in AAA, and then he can come up and replace him and throw 100 pitches no problem.

 

He's been electric in his 2 rehab starts so far as well.

[Krylian]

Should've happened a month ago

[JFD]

Vlad, Kirk, and Manoah are all fat shits.

 

Toronto was infected by woke culture. Beautiful at any size! No fat shaming in the clubhouse!

 

Definitely need to bring back shaming. Best way to keep people in check

[JFD]

So that guy on MLB Network was right all along.

 

And Stroman was wrong. Shocking

[connorp]

So that guy on MLB Network was right all along.

 

He apologized like a bitch. So he should just be mum now

[TorontonianJD]

So that guy on MLB Network was right all along.

 

What is the story here? Pls fill me in

[wilko]

What is the story here? Pls fill me in

 

https://www.tmz.com/2023/02/03/blue-jays-ace-alek-manoah-eviscerates-mlb-network-analyst-over-body-shaming-comments/

[BTS]

https://www.tmz.com/2023/02/03/blue-jays-ace-alek-manoah-eviscerates-mlb-network-analyst-over-body-shaming-comments/

 

"Hey @Anthony_Recker my job isn’t to please you," the 26-year-old said on his Twitter page. "You are an outsider you don’t know me or my work ethic. What I do in the gym has clearly worked check the numbers, sucks you can’t say the same for yourself."

 

OOPS

[mphenhef]

I totally don't understand why people are dismissing this. There is absolutely variation on how fast people can recover from an explosive effort. Pitch clock is 15 to 20 seconds, and the recovery time for a pitcher between pitches, follows a statistical distribution like every other variable.

 

So recovery time varies from a a to b, likely something like 10 to 25 seconds, and Manoah could be closer to 25 thus is really hurt by the pitch clock.

 

I could be wrong, but it feels like he has thrown lots of s***** pitches to start games and innings too. First pitch to a batter would be with more time too. It would be an interesting thing to look at if someone had the time and resources.

[Laika]

where were you when Anthony Recker ruined Manoah's entire career?

[wilko]

"Hey @Anthony_Recker my job isn’t to please you," the 26-year-old said on his Twitter page. "You are an outsider you don’t know me or my work ethic. What I do in the gym has clearly worked check the numbers, sucks you can’t say the same for yourself."

 

OOPS

 

#Anthonywasalwaysright

[Jimcanuck]

He is over weight and too out of shape to make quality pitches with the pitch clock.

 

Yes and I think MLB needs to accommodate the guys that are overweight, with a longer pitch clock. It's the times we live in.

[Jimcanuck]

I’m going to assume this is sarcasm but you never know these days how so many people feel they should be accommodated. Just lose some weight and do some cardio Manoah.

 

Yes it was sarcasm, but you know what? If Manoah's MLB career goes off the rails, and it can be attributed in whole or part to the pitch clock, he might actually have a case.

[jaysblue]

Yes it was sarcasm, but you know what? If Manoah's MLB career goes off the rails, and it can be attributed in whole or part to the pitch clock, he might actually have a case.

 

Should the MLB also accommodate Kirk and give him a head start on the base paths every time?

[Stangstag]

Im kinda shocked the front office is still choosing to send Manoah out there every 5th game. The dude has options. Let him work on s*** in a low-leverage environment

[Eat My Shatkins]

I wonder if they're worried they'll send him down and he'll still get hammered by AAA hitters. If that happened it could be devastating for him mentally. Might never come back.

[Jimcanuck]

Should the MLB also accommodate Kirk and give him a head start on the base paths every time?

 

But MLB made a change, implementing a pitch clock for business (revenue) reasons. They haven't made a change to the base paths. Other than the slightly bigger bases which are to a baserunner's benefit.

 

Since MLB made the change for revenue reasons, and potentially Manoah will be financially harmed by it, well..... I'll let you connect the dots.

 

Hard to establish that Manoah's struggles are due to the pitch clock change and not other reasons though.

[jaysblue]

I wonder if they're worried they'll send him down and he'll still get hammered by AAA hitters. If that happened it could be devastating for him mentally. Might never come back.

 

When Doc first was sent down, did he get hammered by minor league bats in his first couple of starts? Again, Jays need Manoah long term and even if this season is a wash for him, he can still be valuable in 2024 and 2025.

[jaysblue]

But MLB made a change, implementing a pitch clock for business (revenue) reasons. They haven't made a change to the base paths. Other than the slightly bigger bases which are to a baserunner's benefit.

 

Since MLB made the change for revenue reasons, and potentially Manoah will be financially harmed by it, well..... I'll let you connect the dots.

 

Hard to establish that Manoah's struggles are due to the pitch clock change and not other reasons though.

 

What if the Blue Jays signed Manoah to a contract extension during the offseason? Wouldn't the Blue Jays be financially harmed by the pitch clock now as well, since Manoah turned into a pumpkin on the mound?

[Jimcanuck]

What if the Blue Jays signed Manoah to a contract extension during the offseason? Wouldn't the Blue Jays be financially harmed by the pitch clock now as well, since Manoah turned into a pumpkin on the mound?

 

Except the Jays are part of MLB and had a say in the decisions made. The players though are different, they are effectively unionized staff.

 

It's just an interesting line of thought. A comparable might be 1B being moved 15 feet further into the OF, leading to Kirk regularly getting thrown out at 1B on his liners to the OF and the end of his career. Would he have a legal case?