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General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

Krylian

By Krylian
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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Laika
Laika

Go find one post saying this   Try to find one   Go do it

John_Havok MVP

John_Havok

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I could stomach Rosario at 2/15 since he has a 2+ WAR projection for 2024 and was slightly above league average offensively in 2021-22, so maybe there's some upside there, but IKF would be awful. Even if he's just an Espinal replacement, I'd probably just keep Espinal who would be cheaper.

 

Isn’t Rosario just Espinal with slightly better speed?

John_Havok MVP

John_Havok

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Deal is official according to Robert Murray. 2/15 for IKF. Horrible.

 

As long as he’s a bench piece and not a starter…I’m cool with it, but I don’t see why they felt the need to sign a noodle bat defense-guy for more money than our current noodle bat defense-guy.

 

I guess Espinal is about to get punted into the sun or traded, no reason to keep him at this point.

Sorrow Draft Eligible

Sorrow

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

I like the signing. Not necessarily the dollar value but he’s such a good defender at 3rd and can play SS in a pinch. Lets us move Espinal and since there aren’t any other IF on the 40 who realistically can play short it makes sense.

 

I know someone thinks Bo may be moved but the rumblings that have come my way are expect something more like Manoah, Espinal, Barger, Dahian Santos possibly more in a package for a few players with control.

John_Havok MVP

John_Havok

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I like the signing. Not necessarily the dollar value but he’s such a good defender at 3rd and can play SS in a pinch. Lets us move Espinal and since there aren’t any other IF on the 40 who realistically can play short it makes sense.

 

I know someone thinks Bo may be moved but the rumblings that have come my way are expect something more like Manoah, Espinal, Barger, Dahian Santos possibly more in a package for a few players with control.

 

Any inkling as to the team that might be involved? Like…Cease and Robert from Chicago would be nice, though it would probably be more like Espinal, Manoah, Orelvis, Santos, Barger….pretty much anyone not named Tiedeman, and I probably wouldn’t even mind if he was included tbh. May as well just load up for the final 2 years of Bo and Vlad

Sorrow Draft Eligible

Sorrow

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Any inkling as to the team that might be involved? Like…Cease and Robert from Chicago would be nice, though it would probably be more like Espinal, Manoah, Orelvis, Santos, Barger….pretty much anyone not named Tiedeman, and I probably wouldn’t even mind if he was included tbh. May as well just load up for the final 2 years of Bo and Vlad

 

I honestly think it’s going to be the Brewers but I’ve been told to keep an eye on the Marlins as well as the Padres.

 

I think the team wants to add another OF who can also DH which lets you rotate Springer and another potential OF into the DH role while giving a lot of at bats to Varsho and KK. The team is really happy with the work Vladdy is doing in Florida but more importantly that he’s actually working with their staff instead of his own staff.

 

He’s trying to find out if the Jays have made an offer to Bellinger but he’s certain that a Chapman is not happening as he’s likely going to get more than The Jays are willing to spend on him.

 

Bellinger is a good fit in that he can play 1B with Vlad at DH and the OF allowing other players to rotate into the DH role to keep them fresh.

 

They want another SP a 3B and an OF still.

 

My buddies takeaway is the Manoah relationship with teammates is fine but with the front office and org is shot. He also trips me that the Jays have interest in Stroman and Stroman has interest in Toronto as he has family here and wants to be closer. He also says that the Jays are willing to take on a bad contract if the other team takes Springers.

 

Sorry for the thoughts out of order, my son is causing chaos and with my ADHD I’ve lost my train of thought a few times writing this out lol.

saskjayfan Dunedin Blue Jays

saskjayfan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I like the signing. Not necessarily the dollar value but he’s such a good defender at 3rd and can play SS in a pinch. Lets us move Espinal and since there aren’t any other IF on the 40 who realistically can play short it makes sense.

 

I know someone thinks Bo may be moved but the rumblings that have come my way are expect something more like Manoah, Espinal, Barger, Dahian Santos possibly more in a package for a few players with control.

 

Moving Espinal. Espinal 4.3 FWAR over the last 3 years in 991 PA. IKF 3.3 FWAR over the last 3 years in 1569 PA. IKF projected to earn 12 mil more dollars over the next 2 years. Like WTF.

John_Havok MVP

John_Havok

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Moving Espinal. Espinal 4.3 FWAR over the last 3 years in 991 PA. IKF 3.3 FWAR over the last 3 years in 1569 PA. IKF projected to earn 12 mil more dollars over the next 2 years. Like WTF.

 

You’re not wrong in that IKF and a Espinal are basically the same type of player and a Espinal is cheaper. However, if you can flip Espinal as part of a bigger package to land a player or players you need and you end up paying a few more million for IKF to fill Espinal’s role…you gotta do it.

glory Vancouver Canadians

glory

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted (edited)
I honestly think it’s going to be the Brewers but I’ve been told to keep an eye on the Marlins as well as the Padres.

 

I think the team wants to add another OF who can also DH which lets you rotate Springer and another potential OF into the DH role while giving a lot of at bats to Varsho and KK. The team is really happy with the work Vladdy is doing in Florida but more importantly that he’s actually working with their staff instead of his own staff.

 

He’s trying to find out if the Jays have made an offer to Bellinger but he’s certain that a Chapman is not happening as he’s likely going to get more than The Jays are willing to spend on him.

 

Bellinger is a good fit in that he can play 1B with Vlad at DH and the OF allowing other players to rotate into the DH role to keep them fresh.

 

They want another SP a 3B and an OF still.

 

My buddies takeaway is the Manoah relationship with teammates is fine but with the front office and org is shot. He also trips me that the Jays have interest in Stroman and Stroman has interest in Toronto as he has family here and wants to be closer. He also says that the Jays are willing to take on a bad contract if the other team takes Springers.

 

Sorry for the thoughts out of order, my son is causing chaos and with my ADHD I’ve lost my train of thought a few times writing this out lol.

 

Robert Murray was on a podcast recently and mentioned there were trade targets no one has talked about. He wouldn’t mention specific names when asked but did mention Arraez as being a possible surprise trade piece. Given what the Jays look for in hitters nowadays, that’s probably a realistic trade target.

Edited by glory
Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

Feel like IKF might just be better than Espinal

 

Espy may have been a bit exposed in 2023. Seems like he is actually not that comfortable or effective in a utility role. Defense was not reliable at all. Was replacement level and had a 80 wRC+ last year. Was useless

 

Yeah 2023 IKF was similar but... longer track record of defensive performance

Sorrow Draft Eligible

Sorrow

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Any inkling as to the team that might be involved? Like…Cease and Robert from Chicago would be nice, though it would probably be more like Espinal, Manoah, Orelvis, Santos, Barger….pretty much anyone not named Tiedeman, and I probably wouldn’t even mind if he was included tbh. May as well just load up for the final 2 years of Bo and Vlad

 

Moving Espinal. Espinal 4.3 FWAR over the last 3 years in 991 PA. IKF 3.3 FWAR over the last 3 years in 1569 PA. IKF projected to earn 12 mil more dollars over the next 2 years. Like WTF.

 

You’re not wrong in that IKF and a Espinal are basically the same type of player and a Espinal is cheaper. However, if you can flip Espinal as part of a bigger package to land a player or players you need and you end up paying a few more million for IKF to fill Espinal’s role…you gotta do it.

 

Espinal also has lost mobility and his bat has sucked for 1.5 seasons, he’s a bad base runner. IKF was inexplicably playing CF for the Yankees last year and was playing hurt. I’d personally make the assumption that at the end of the next two seasons IKF out produces Espinal if they get similar playing time. IKF has a similar bat, better D and better base running.

Frenchsoup FCL Blue Jays

Frenchsoup

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
I love IKFs high contact rate to all fields. Has sneaky pop 2. Really good d at multiple positions. Elite baserunning. High Energy and good guy. Welcome to Toronto IKF.
saskjayfan Dunedin Blue Jays

saskjayfan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Espinal also has lost mobility and his bat has sucked for 1.5 seasons, heÂ’s a bad base runner. IKF was inexplicably playing CF for the Yankees last year and was playing hurt. IÂ’d personally make the assumption that at the end of the next two seasons IKF out produces Espinal if they get similar playing time. IKF has a similar bat, better D and better base running.

 

IKF sucks. There's no upside. Don't talk yourself into believing that. Espinal also sucks. He costs 12 mil less. I'll go with the cheap utility guy. IKF will receive significant playing time. Espinal would not have. This signing probably took 200 ABS from Babe Schneider. Wouldn't be shocked if we traded Schneider.

Omar All-Star

Omar

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

My buddies takeaway is the Manoah relationship with teammates is fine but with the front office and org is shot. He also trips me that the Jays have interest in Stroman and Stroman has interest in Toronto as he has family here and wants to be closer. He also says that the Jays are willing to take on a bad contract if the other team takes Springers.

 

Alek Manoah and the Jays are fine, Manaoh was suffering a shoulder injury early in the off season last year and it took him a while to get underway and he arrived at Spring Training out of shape and not game ready and the Jays were pissed as he didn't disclose the injury. The Jays are open to moving Manoah but they want fair return.

 

:confused:

glory Vancouver Canadians

glory

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Both IKF and Espinal project to be about 1 WAR players, and both are coming off bad replacement level seasons. I don't see how one is expendable and the other is worth $15m. Neither one should be getting the type of money/guarantee that IKF just got. There have been like 5 FA's who actually signed contracts this winter. IKF shouldn't have been this much of a priority.
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