General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[jaysblue]

Shapiro sweeping everyone off their feet with his press conference today lol.

[hanton]

Shapiro sweeping everyone off their feet with his press conference today lol.

 

tbh and I think it's not a surprise, the sports media are cowards for the most part - they went off script for a few days ...

[BTS]

If you guys are done filatiating Shapiro. What does it say about their process that it took them 164 games to recognize there is an offensive problem and communication/informational flow issue and need the off season to deep dive and fix it.

 

The issue were very apparent by May. Nothing changed by July, nothing changed end of July, nor into October.

 

Failure to identify and process flows that fail to adapt accordingly. Successful companies are able to pivot or use the two way door approach to decision making.

 

Wasted season, wasted time in the window. hi

 

I don't actually know if Shapiro believes there was a systematic offensive problem, or if "we're looking into it" was just a deflection. Fans/media are acting like the offense was historically bad or something, but they were still 14th in runs and 8th in wRC+ despite getting nothing from Vlad. A lot of guys were fine offensively. Vlad, Springer, Varsho, and Kirk disappointed. But I don't think this looks too far out of the ordinary if Vlad mashes.

 

If Vlad is between 2021 and 2022 Vlad, the team is like 9th in runs and 5th in wRC+. Which seems about right given their lineup this year. If that happens the underperformers are just a 33-year old Springer, a fat catcher, and Varsho.

 

I dunno, I don't think Shapiro really believes they developed a systematic organizational issue between 2022 when they raked and 2023 when they were just a bit above average. What they do have to figure out is Vlad. And maybe don't give like 1500 PA to guys like Merrifield, Kiermaier, and Biggio if you have designs on being a top-5 offense or something.

[jaysblue]

BJMB after the Shapiro press conference today:

 

[Omar]

BJMB after the Shapiro press conference today:

 

 

That's pretty funny. But inaccurate. I was just noting that he isolated Vladdy by saying "we lost because we didn't score runs and because of baserunning mistake". A guy who can answer questions as deftly as Shapiro put that out there to send a message. It is obvious he was livid about the whole situation but especially Vladdy's stupidity.

 

What is also surprising is that not a lot of media picked it up on it during or after the presser. Media people can be quite tone deaf. When the CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays drops a bomb on the "franchise player" it has repercussions. Good news for Jays fans because Vladdy has been a major downer these past two seasons.

 

Wake up call delivered. Let's see if Vladdy receives it. Only a hundred days until pitchers and catchers report to the Dunedin complex in FLA.

[Terminator]

BJMB after the Shapiro press conference today:

 

 

She cute

 

The only post you’ve made since the season started that didn’t make me want to claw my eyes out. Congrats.

[JaysAllMighty]

That's pretty funny. But inaccurate. I was just noting that he isolated Vladdy by saying "we lost because we didn't score runs and because of baserunning mistake". A guy who can answer questions as deftly as Shapiro put that out there to send a message. It is obvious he was livid about the whole situation but especially Vladdy's stupidity.

 

What is also surprising is that not a lot of media picked it up on it during or after the presser. Media people can be quite tone deaf. When the CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays drops a bomb on the "franchise player" it has repercussions. Good news for Jays fans because Vladdy has been a major downer these past two seasons.

 

Wake up call delivered. Let's see if Vladdy receives it. Only a hundred days until pitchers and catchers report to the Dunedin complex in FLA.

 

Vladdy is just dumb, he'll always be the same.

[mphenhef]

It was still very early in May!

 

It was a small sample size and the hitting with runners in scoring position numbers were bound to normalize...

[mphenhef]

I will give him high marks for his handling of the media and the stadium renovations so far.

 

However, he is not a design architect nor the Media relations VP.

 

At the end of the day he needs to deliver a WS.

 

Going to be much harder next year. Where do you stop saying, ok, one more year…?

 

They've lost a portion of the fanbase (maybe that changes after an offseason to cool down) heading into a season where they are launching fancy new (and very expensive) seating options. It's going to look very bad for him if many of those seats and club memberships go unsold.

[John_Havok]

I don't actually know if Shapiro believes there was a systematic offensive problem, or if "we're looking into it" was just a deflection. Fans/media are acting like the offense was historically bad or something, but they were still 14th in runs and 8th in wRC+ despite getting nothing from Vlad. A lot of guys were fine offensively. Vlad, Springer, Varsho, and Kirk disappointed. But I don't think this looks too far out of the ordinary if Vlad mashes.

 

If Vlad is between 2021 and 2022 Vlad, the team is like 9th in runs and 5th in wRC+. Which seems about right given their lineup this year. If that happens the underperformers are just a 33-year old Springer, a fat catcher, and Varsho.

 

I dunno, I don't think Shapiro really believes they developed a systematic organizational issue between 2022 when they raked and 2023 when they were just a bit above average. What they do have to figure out is Vlad. And maybe don't give like 1500 PA to guys like Merrifield, Kiermaier, and Biggio if you have designs on being a top-5 offense or something.

 

I think what he was alluding to is basically that the Jays piled up hits, but not runs so need to figure out if the overall system was to blame or not. RISP issues went terribly in the first half, bounced way back over expectations in the second half.

[Laika]

One thing Shapiro said that made sense to me is:

 

"there is a competitive advantage in organizational continuity"

 

Basically, cleaning house and going scorched earth can have negative impacts. You lose valuable people every time, even incidentally. You lose communication networks and fracture working relationships. Stuff like that.

[Stangstag]

One thing Shapiro said that made sense to me is:

 

"there is a competitive advantage in organizational continuity"

 

Basically, cleaning house and going scorched earth can have negative impacts. You lose valuable people every time, even incidentally. You lose communication networks and fracture working relationships. Stuff like that.

 

Right, yeah that stuck out for me too. Sounding like they want to wait to clean house until it’s rebuild time. I can’t necessarily say that’s the wrong decision, when has a new GM come in and been successful right away?

[BigCecil]

Ben Ennis and JD Bunkis talking about the presser yesterday referring to Ross Atkins as Shapiro's "Reek". Game of Thrones reference.

 

Its sports talk radio - pretty funny and cruel sometimes.

[Sorrow]

I think stability is important. Apparently GM candidates the Red Sox are interested in are declining to even interview.

[MikeM3]

Shapiro is a great speaker and great at renovations and the rest who knows.

[Jonn]

One thing Shapiro said that made sense to me is:

 

"there is a competitive advantage in organizational continuity"

 

Basically, cleaning house and going scorched earth can have negative impacts. You lose valuable people every time, even incidentally. You lose communication networks and fracture working relationships. Stuff like that.

 

Bad decisions like pulling Berrios at 47 pitches made headlines around the league. You better believe these things come up in future negotiations. Players don't want to hear what things they do bad or why it makes sense to be pulled over or pinch hit for in certain situations. There is clearly a fracture of trust between the players and coaching staff over that decision. And might be an even larger one between the coaches and management. Yet all the cogs making the decisions remain in place. It doesn't exactly look like things could get better especially standing on the outside.

[mphenhef]

I think what he was alluding to is basically that the Jays piled up hits, but not runs so need to figure out if the overall system was to blame or not. RISP issues went terribly in the first half, bounced way back over expectations in the second half.

 

The best hitter with runners in scoring position was Vlad wasn't it? The same guy we heard wasn't listening to the coaches this year.

[mphenhef]

I think stability is important. Apparently GM candidates the Red Sox are interested in are declining to even interview.

 

8 years is plenty stable. 8 years when you inherited one dynamic young talent in Vladdy and scouts who called for a second dynamic talent to be drafted when you didn't want to (Bo). So they've wasted nearly all of their cheap years without so much as a playoff win to show for it. Yes, they have been more successful than many of the regimes before them, but given the hand they were dealt one could argue they should have done better. Now, they haven't won a playofff game, their core guys getting more expensive and have spent a boatload in free agency with a fairly bare farm system. This isn't the sustainable model they sold us.

[Brownie19]

They've lost a portion of the fanbase (maybe that changes after an offseason to cool down) heading into a season where they are launching fancy new (and very expensive) seating options. It's going to look very bad for him if many of those seats and club memberships go unsold.

 

I think that remains to be seen. Fans are always pissed off when they lose and form irrational opinions. Give them time to cool off and give the Jays time to make adjustments to the real problem (the players) this offseason. God know if the Jays somehow trade for Juan Soto, all the mouthbreathers threatening to disown the team will be back in a millisecond - whether it's a smart trade or not.

[Omar]

One thing Shapiro said that made sense to me is:

 

"there is a competitive advantage in organizational continuity"

 

Basically, cleaning house and going scorched earth can have negative impacts. You lose valuable people every time, even incidentally. You lose communication networks and fracture working relationships. Stuff like that.

 

Sure. More than just from a human resource perspective, nobody likes taking over someone else's work.

 

Then again, Click is right there.

[Brownie19]

8 years is plenty stable. 8 years when you inherited one dynamic young talent in Vladdy and scouts who called for a second dynamic talent to be drafted when you didn't want to (Bo). So they've wasted nearly all of their cheap years without so much as a playoff win to show for it. Yes, they have been more successful than many of the regimes before them, but given the hand they were dealt one could argue they should have done better. Now, they haven't won a playofff game, their core guys getting more expensive and have spent a boatload in free agency with a fairly bare farm system. This isn't the sustainable model they sold us.

 

To be fair, it's only 5 years of Vlad/Bo. They took another run at it in 2016 and then there were certainly some transitions years in there. Your point is still fair - the results haven't been there, but that doesn't mean that there isn't truth that stability within the FO is still valuable.

[wilko]

Was there any questions about his hair line?

[Omar]

Shapiro is a great speaker and great at renovations and the rest who knows.

 

If you're referring to the long list of championship seasons Shapiro teams have accrued under his leadership well...

[John_Havok]

Was there any questions about his hair line?

 

Sadly...no

[BTS]

Was there any questions about his hair line?

 

Is it just me or has the hairline mostly held strong for the last 8 years, albeit halfway back on his head? He did look like he's waited too long since his last dye though.

[Terminator]

I'm really glad that the board has fought back against the 4 brainless horsemen of playoff apocalypse (we all know who they are) to regain control of the board.

 

I was actually considering dusting off my badge there for a minute.

[Terminator]

Is it just me or has the hairline mostly held strong for the last 8 years, albeit halfway back on his head? He did look like he's waited too long since his last dye though.

 

He's got a 0 grade hairline on the 20-80 scale. Really needs to buzz that thing down.

[BigCecil]

I'm really glad that the board has fought back against the 4 brainless horsemen of playoff apocalypse (we all know who they are) to regain control of the board.

 

I was actually considering dusting off my badge there for a minute.

 

Thank you Sheriffinator. Without your stalwart interventions the Board would have spiraled into perpetual decay. The term "randomness" has forever become part of the minute by minute vernacular in the discourse, and will become synonymous for eternity with the Jays 2023 two game playoff run. You have done a great service.

[Terminator]

Thank you Sheriffinator. Without your stalwart interventions the Board would have spiraled into perpetual decay. The term "randomness" has forever become part of the minute by minute vernacular in the discourse, and will become synonymous for eternity with the Jays 2023 two game playoff run. You have done a great service.

 

The Sheriff has retired so I can't take any of the credit. Plenty of others lead the charge and were more effective in doing so.

 

The badge is collecting dust on the mantle of the fireplace now. For some reason I just can't seem to throw it away.

 

Sometimes after work when I'm drinking whisky I'll stare at it. It's almost daring me to put it back on. But those days are over, sadly.

[BTS]

The Sheriff has retired so I can't take any of the credit. Plenty of others lead the charge and were more effective in doing so.

 

The badge is collecting dust on the mantle of the fireplace now. For some reason I just can't seem to throw it away.

 

Sometimes after work when I'm drinking whisky I'll stare at it. It's almost daring me to put it back on. But those days are over, sadly.

 

Hang on to it. There will come a day - maybe not next month or even next year, but eventually - when the forum is overrun by posters who narrativize playoff randomness and fanboy the Orioles. So overrun that the sane forum regulars can’t regain control. When that day comes you’ll login, and see the blue alert indicating that you’ve received a private message. And it will be from the BJMB moderation team letting you know that it’s time for the sheriff to get back in the saddle, because his forum needs him.