General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Brownie19]

Meh when you're still giving guys like Tapia and Zimmer a lot of at-bats last season and this season Biggio and Espinal, they're not perfect and still could improve. Plus I don't want to bring up 2021. Luckily a lot of guys from Buffalo have been producing up here in the absence of Chapman and Bo. Not sure how long that lasts but let's keep riding their hot bats for as long as we could!

 

Zimmer got 101 PAs last year after coming off a 91 wRC+, 1.6 WAR season. Obviously it didn't work out great for the Jays, but it's easy to see why the Jays brought him in. I think most underestimate how difficult it is to be the 5th OFer on a team and get an at bat or 2 once every 8 games. Tapia definitely got too many PA's as our 4th OFer last year. Both issues got addressed late last season.

 

I don't think anyone expected Espinal to be this bad this year. He's given us like the 10% percentile result unfortunately. He was a league average or above hitter the past 2 years and about a 2 WAR player. The FO isn't to blame for penciling Espinal in as a utility guy this year - in fact they deserve credit for pushing him from a starter into a backup role man.

 

I think you overestimate the production teams should expect from their bench players. The Dodgers have David Peralta, Vargas and Rojas all over 300 PA's this year and they all have wRC+'s below 90 and have provided a combined 0.2 WAR. Dodgers are super lucky that Jason Heyward has come back from the dead. Take a look at most of the top teams (except the Braves - those guys are insane) and you'll see lots of guys like Biggio getting even more playing time. The O's have Adam Frazier essentially starting for them (400+ PA's) and he's essentially Biggio...

[hanton]

One thing that's stood out as weird all season is how for some reason Cavan Biggio is the only player on this roster that can backup Springer in RF even though he's hopeless defensively in the OF. Yet Whit and Varsho have both barely sniffed playing time there even though they both have many innings of major league reps in RF with their previous teams. Why is the team so deadset on Biggio's sub-replacement level output in RF being Springer's only backup option?

 

becasue they failed to add another outfielder, the team really only has 3 legit outfielders varsho/kk/springer

 

The #1 priority this off season is to get a big bat LF

[metafour]

Zimmer got 101 PAs last year after coming off a 91 wRC+, 1.6 WAR season. Obviously it didn't work out great for the Jays, but it's easy to see why the Jays brought him in. I think most underestimate how difficult it is to be the 5th OFer on a team and get an at bat or 2 once every 8 games. Tapia definitely got too many PA's as our 4th OFer last year. Both issues got addressed late last season.

 

I don't think anyone expected Espinal to be this bad this year. He's given us like the 10% percentile result unfortunately. He was a league average or above the past 2 years. The FO isn't to blame for penciling Espinal in as a utility guy this year - in fact they deserve credit for pushing him from a starter into a backup role man.

 

I think you overestimate the production teams should expect from their bench players. The Dodgers have David Peralta, Vargas and Rojas all over 300 PA's this year and they all have wRC+'s below 90 and have provided a combined 0.2 WAR. Dodgers are super lucky that Jason Heyward has come back from the dead. Take a look at most of the top teams (except the Braves - those guys are insane) and you'll see lots of guys like Biggio getting even more playing time. The O's have Adam Frazier essentially starting for them (400+ PA's) and he's essentially Biggio...

 

Dude can you please stop boot-licking this FO.

 

We suck and can't do anything right. We're incredibly lucky that players we drafted and developed are up and hitting well right now.

[Stangstag]

One thing that's stood out as weird all season is how for some reason Cavan Biggio is the only player on this roster that can backup Springer in RF even though he's hopeless defensively in the OF. Yet Whit and Varsho have both barely sniffed playing time there even though they both have many innings of major league reps in RF with their previous teams. Why is the team so deadset on Biggio's sub-replacement level output in RF being Springer's only backup option?

 

Front office is very weird with the LF/RF thing, and it’s always been that way.

 

There were many times Gurriel should have been playing RF last year when Teo was on the bench. Springer should have been playing LF with Teo/Gurriel in RF in most situations previous years.

 

They don’t seem to think the positions are interchangeable even though they totally are. Rule of thumb is you want the better arm in RF, the better glove in LF.

 

So, Varsho being in LF makes sense. Not sure we we’ve never seen the Whit-KK-Varsho alignment in the OF, or why Varsho has strictly played LF/CF all season.

[BigCecil]

Meh when you're still giving guys like Tapia and Zimmer a lot of at-bats last season and this season Biggio and Espinal, it's fair to question the lack of depth in some areas on the roster. Plus I don't want to bring up 2021. Luckily a lot of guys from Buffalo have been producing up here in the absence of Chapman and Bo. Not sure how long that lasts but let's keep riding their hot bats for as long as we could!

 

As for the bullpen, Atkins has built a very deep bullpen this season so kudos to him and the front office. Richards and Francis have been great! Still a little worried if they have to close out a 2-1 or 3-2 game starting from the 5th inning on, but every bullpen isn't perfect.

 

433 PAs for Tapia and 100 ish for Zimmer in '22. No bueno.

[jaysblue]

Zimmer got 101 PAs last year after coming off a 91 wRC+, 1.6 WAR season. Obviously it didn't work out great for the Jays, but it's easy to see why the Jays brought him in. I think most underestimate how difficult it is to be the 5th OFer on a team and get an at bat or 2 once every 8 games. Tapia definitely got too many PA's as our 4th OFer last year. Both issues got addressed late last season.

 

I don't think anyone expected Espinal to be this bad this year. He's given us like the 10% percentile result unfortunately. He was a league average or above hitter the past 2 years and about a 2 WAR player. The FO isn't to blame for penciling Espinal in as a utility guy this year - in fact they deserve credit for pushing him from a starter into a backup role man.

 

I think you overestimate the production teams should expect from their bench players. The Dodgers have David Peralta, Vargas and Rojas all over 300 PA's this year and they all have wRC+'s below 90 and have provided a combined 0.2 WAR. Dodgers are super lucky that Jason Heyward has come back from the dead. Take a look at most of the top teams (except the Braves - those guys are insane) and you'll see lots of guys like Biggio getting even more playing time. The O's have Adam Frazier essentially starting for them (400+ PA's) and he's essentially Biggio...

 

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you on this issue. You're obviously out here guns blazing in defending Atkins and the front office 100% of the time and on Tapia/Zimmer and Biggios/Espinal. You're too much man. Just admit it's an area Atkins and the front office could have done better with.

 

I recall Tapia was playing pretty much all season last year, including playing a pivotal role in Game 2 of the WC matchup. As for Biggio and Espinal, they've been given plenty of time to prove themselves this season. Upgrades on one or both of them at the trade deadline would have been nice. Especially with Bo and Chapman now out. Glad that the Buffalo guys have come in and contributed, but we can't rely or expect a bunch of AAA guys to carry this lineup. The bullpen early in 2021 really cost them, but don't want to bring that up.

[Olerud363]

Front office is very weird with the LF/RF thing, and itÂ’s always been that way.

 

There were many times Gurriel should have been playing RF last year when Teo was on the bench. Springer should have been playing LF with Teo/Gurriel in RF in most situations previous years.

 

They donÂ’t seem to think the positions are interchangeable even though they totally are. Rule of thumb is you want the better arm in RF, the better glove in LF.

 

So, Varsho being in LF makes sense. Not sure we weÂ’ve never seen the Whit-KK-Varsho alignment in the OF, or why Varsho has strictly played LF/CF all season.

 

I'm pretty sure I heard them say that they believe that some players have a hard time getting good jumps when playing on the opposite side of the field. So for some reason since Biggio has a tonne of experience at second, they think he gets better jumps in right.

 

Not sure that theory totally makes sense, as they switch Merrifield left to second... Maybe it is just a Biggio thing.

[jaysblue]

Dude can you please stop boot-licking this FO.

 

We suck and can't do anything right. We're incredibly lucky that players we drafted and developed are up and hitting well right now.

 

Lmao, it's hilarious how you guys come out like cockroaches when someone criticizes Atkins and this front office on something. You both really need to chill and stop pretending Atkins is all Godly as a GM.

 

I've praised Atkins here on many occasions and have said he's done a solid job as a GM. Again, you're making me seem like I hate him and the FO given that I've criticized them on a couple of things. Atkins has done a really solid job putting together competitive teams during his tenure. Hasn't taken this team yet to the next level however but he still has time to do so.

[Stangstag]

I'm pretty sure I heard them say that they believe that some players have a hard time getting good jumps when playing on the opposite side of the field. So for some reason since Biggio has a tonne of experience at second, they think he gets better jumps in right.

 

Not sure that theory totally makes sense, as they switch Merrifield left to second... Maybe it is just a Biggio thing.

 

Hmm ok I guess that kinda makes sense. Though with guys like Springer/Varsho/Teo etc they should be able to switch LF/RF on a whim. Any major league OFer should be able to switch sides easily.

[BigCecil]

 

I recall Tapia was playing pretty much all season last year, including playing a pivotal role in Game 2 of the WC matchup.

 

His horrible D jumps all year and that game 2 wildcard are burned in my mind. Those catch probabilities were solid. WTF was he even doing in the field at that time trying to protect that lead? His defensive stats were atrocious, aside from his bat.

[BigCecil]

Bassitt 2.1 WAR 4.42 FIP and 173 IP

 

Quite a season

[Stangstag]

His horrible D jumps all year and that game 2 wildcard are burned in my mind. Those catch probabilities were solid. WTF was he even doing in the field at that time trying to protect that lead? His defensive stats were atrocious, aside from his bat.

 

I was there man, sitting in LF. Watched Springer die right in front of me. f***ing brutal

 

I can’t being myself to attend the playoffs this year if the make it. I’ll watch on TV

[Stangstag]

His horrible D jumps all year and that game 2 wildcard are burned in my mind. Those catch probabilities were solid. WTF was he even doing in the field at that time trying to protect that lead? His defensive stats were atrocious, aside from his bat.

 

Also JBJ on the bench…. ARGGHHHH

[jaysblue]

Bassitt 2.1 WAR 4.42 FIP and 173 IP

 

Quite a season

 

Can't complain with the results Bassitt has given the Jays. He's been a really solid middle of the rotation piece. Hope he can keep this up in Year 2 and 3.

[jaysblue]

Also JBJ on the bench…. ARGGHHHH

 

Forgot about him completely.

[Spanky99]

Front office is very weird with the LF/RF thing, and it’s always been that way.

 

There were many times Gurriel should have been playing RF last year when Teo was on the bench. Springer should have been playing LF with Teo/Gurriel in RF in most situations previous years.

 

They don’t seem to think the positions are interchangeable even though they totally are. Rule of thumb is you want the better arm in RF, the better glove in LF.

 

So, Varsho being in LF makes sense. Not sure we we’ve never seen the Whit-KK-Varsho alignment in the OF, or why Varsho has strictly played LF/CF all season.

 

Biggio told them he had a harder time reading the ball off the bat in LF over RF, that's why. Whit covers LF, I think it's a fine setup.

[Spanky99]

I'm pretty sure I heard them say that they believe that some players have a hard time getting good jumps when playing on the opposite side of the field. So for some reason since Biggio has a tonne of experience at second, they think he gets better jumps in right.

 

Not sure that theory totally makes sense, as they switch Merrifield left to second... Maybe it is just a Biggio thing.

 

Yes, it is.

[Brownie19]

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you on this issue. You're obviously out here guns blazing in defending Atkins and the front office 100% of the time and on Tapia/Zimmer and Biggios/Espinal. You're too much man. Just admit it's an area Atkins and the front office could have done better with.

 

I recall Tapia was playing pretty much all season last year, including playing a pivotal role in Game 2 of the WC matchup. As for Biggio and Espinal, they've been given plenty of time to prove themselves this season. Upgrades on one or both of them at the trade deadline would have been nice. Especially with Bo and Chapman now out. Glad that the Buffalo guys have come in and contributed, but we can't rely or expect a bunch of AAA guys to carry this lineup. The bullpen early in 2021 really cost them, but don't want to bring that up.

 

Dude - it's just a conversation. I'm not guns blazing at all. It was a little joke to counter all the claims that this FO doesn't know how to fill out a roster and ensure we have enough depth. Having guys in AAA who are ready to contribute at the ML level is exactly what depth looks like. You can't just dismiss their contributions. Espinal has earned some leash man - he's coming off two 2 WAR seasons and has been playing great as of late - and Biggio has a 111 wRC+ since May 1st. He's been a very solid, versatile bench contributor this year.

 

This is one of the deepest Blue Jays teams in the past 25 years - which has allowed us to crawl back into a playoff position while Bo, Chapman and Jansen are injured.

 

I'm sorry you still can't seem to grasp that a move like bringing in Zimmer was a solid move by the FO - albeit one that simply did not work out (every move has a probability of failure). You can't just focus on the results as that is often out of their control. If the FO just focused on results and cut everyone who was bad in half a season (like Espi this year), then we would haven't Richards, Kikucci, Belt, etc.

 

Tapia? Yeah - that one sucked really bad. No FO is perfect though. Look around at other teams a bit more and you'll see it.

[Brownie19]

Lmao, it's hilarious how you guys come out like cockroaches when someone criticizes Atkins and this front office on something. You both really need to chill and stop pretending Atkins is all Godly as a GM.

 

I've praised Atkins here on many occasions and have said he's done a solid job as a GM. Again, you're making me seem like I hate him and the FO given that I've criticized them on a couple of things. Atkins has done a really solid job putting together competitive teams during his tenure. Hasn't taken this team yet to the next level however but he still has time to do so.

 

You should perhaps insert the gif you did yesterday where the joke flew over your head. We're just cracking jokes at your expense man. Lighten up.

[wilko]

Forgot about him completely.

 

So did the league. Is he still playing with the Royals?

[hanton]

Bassitt 2.1 WAR 4.42 FIP and 173 IP

 

Quite a season

 

I was so so with the signing - but he's been really good, he's a bit of an odd ball with his deep pitch repertoire and him calling his pitches, but whatever works for him, I'm a fan.

[hanton]

In general the better fielder plays in LF - more action, better arm in RF for the throw to 3rd

[Brownie19]

I was so so with the signing - but he's been really good, he's a bit of an odd ball with his deep pitch repertoire and him calling his pitches, but whatever works for him, I'm a fan.

 

He's exactly what we signed up for IMO. He's a workhorse (6th in MLB in IP) who battles and keeps you in games. He's 46th in MLB in WAR for starting pitchers and has been a solid, reliable #2/#3 starter for the Jays. Given the uncertainty of Kikucci, Berrios and Ryu - the team needed someone they could rely on this year and he's done just that.

[BigCecil]

Can't complain with the results Bassitt has given the Jays. He's been a really solid middle of the rotation piece. Hope he can keep this up in Year 2 and 3.

 

He wasn’t cheap and who knows how year 2 and 3 go but one would have to say he has been very solid in 2023. With Manoah cratering the importance of the value from Kooch, Hound, return of Ryu and Berrios has been pivotal. The amount of innings eaten by the Hound so far is impressive. Especially with JS in the dugout!

[max silver]

Lmao, it's hilarious how you guys come out like cockroaches when someone criticizes Atkins and this front office on something. You both really need to chill and stop pretending Atkins is all Godly as a GM.

 

I've praised Atkins here on many occasions and have said he's done a solid job as a GM. Again, you're making me seem like I hate him and the FO given that I've criticized them on a couple of things. Atkins has done a really solid job putting together competitive teams during his tenure. Hasn't taken this team yet to the next level however but he still has time to do so.

 

You have incredibly thin skin man. You act like people aren't allowed to disagree with you and as soon as someone dares to post an opinion that's different than yours you start with the name calling as your first resort. You should really learn to chill out if you actually want to discuss baseball as you claim.

 

Like do you really need to compare people that generally like the front office cockroaches? That doesn't seem like the best way to portray yourself as someone looking for rational discussion when you immediately throw out insults of that nature.

[jaysblue]

You should perhaps insert the gif you did yesterday where the joke flew over your head. We're just cracking jokes at your expense man. Lighten up.

 

The issue with you and some of the other members in your homer brigade is that you treat prominent posters who actually make rational criticisms about this team or FO as idiots or morons. Like if I say anything negative or even question anything, you and your brigade come out and attack like cockroaches. It's insufferable man. You treat me and some others like we're trolls who only say negative things about this team which isn't true.

 

If I even say something positive about Atkins or the front office, my words get turned around and guys like Metafour feel the urge to still defend the FO lol. It's hilarious.

 

Again, Atkins has done a real solid job while he's been here. Not debating that. I've even said if the Jays miss the Postseason in 2023, he should be given another crack at it in 2024. Has he been exceptional? You can argue given the results to this point, expectations have not been met and he hasn't taken this team to the next level. Those are the facts lol. And obviously with that being the case, there are some areas he could be criticized on, as with every GM and front office in the league.

 

The difference is posters like you, Metafour, Max continue to all wear blinders.

[hanton]

He wasn’t cheap and who knows how year 2 and 3 go but one would have to say he has been very solid in 2023. With Manoah cratering the importance of the value from Kooch, Hound, return of Ryu and Berrios has been pivotal. The amount of innings eaten by the Hound so far is impressive. Especially with JS in the dugout!

 

kikuchi/springer/guasman/ryu....nearly every big name FA - seems we have to overpay by adding an extra year.

[Laika]

Gausman was not an overpay

 

Kikuchi looks like a nice contract now, haha

[max silver]

Can't complain with the results Bassitt has given the Jays. He's been a really solid middle of the rotation piece. Hope he can keep this up in Year 2 and 3.

 

No way man the team should have overpaid Kyle Gibson and given him an offer he couldn't refuse so he signed with the Jays instead of the Orioles. After all his FIP is better than Bassitt's right now so who gives a f*** about all of Bassitt's other performance indicators being better.

[jaysblue]

You have incredibly thin skin man. You act like people aren't allowed to disagree with you and as soon as someone dares to post an opinion that's different than yours you start with the name calling as your first resort. You should really learn to chill out if you actually want to discuss baseball as you claim.

 

Like do you really need to compare people that generally like the front office cockroaches? That doesn't seem like the best way to portray yourself as someone looking for rational discussion when you immediately throw out insults of that nature.

 

Lol you guys have thin skin.

 

I'm pretty much treated like a troll according to you guys if I question anything about this front office. Your responses are very condescending which is why I can't debate or have discussion with you, Brownie and Metafour.

 

I disagree with a lot of other posters on here regarding some things, but at least they're not condescending as you three. Spanky, Hurl, Terminator, L54, Laika, BTS, etc. They actually have discussions and aren't condescending at all even if we disagree on something.