General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Spanky99]

Teo's OPS would be 2nd lowest on the team it only beats Varsho by .019.

 

Yup, Jays are 4th in WAR and 5th in wRC+... pitching and HR's have been the Jays weak points so far this season.

[John_Havok]

The OF defense is dramatically improved

 

The offense is missing the Teo and LGJ bats though... Wouldn't be as noticeable if so many hitters weren't underperforming

 

No offense is missing Teo's bat right now, he's marginally better than Varsho so far. This offense had Gurriel Jrs bat for 5 years, and only approached his current performance in the COVID shortened season. He's worse defensively this season, and still a bad baserunner.

 

So, yeah I guess you could say the offense missed LGJ's bat, but it doesn't miss the total package at all. even taking fWAR as perfect (which we all know it isn't...) there's 1 win difference between the 2 players a third of the way through the season. LGJ also hasnt slumped yet and Varsho hasnt heated up yet. The end of season numbers will be close enough (hopefully) that people will forget this was ever a thing.

[wilko]

No offense is missing Teo's bat right now. This offense had Gurriel Jrs bat for 5 years, and only approached his current performance in the COVID shortened season. He's worse defensively this season, and still a bad baserunner.

 

So, yeah I guess you could say the offense missed LGJ's bat, but it doesn't miss the total package at all.

 

[G-Snarls]

Yeah

 

I meant missing what those two bats had been for us

 

But point taken. Teo in particular isn't doing much this year.

[G-Snarls]

And the pitching is definitely the biggest problem

 

Offense has been pretty good and should be better if even 2 of Vladdy Kirk and Springer can hit closer to their true talent levels

[wilko]

Yeah

 

I meant missing what those two bats had been for us

 

But point taken. Teo in particular isn't doing much this year.

 

Plus LGJ can disappear offensively for long periods at a time and you're stuck with a s***** LF / baserunner.

[G-Snarls]

Plus LGJ can disappear offensively for long periods at a time and you're stuck with a s***** LF / baserunner.

 

I love our new OF

 

I do wish that Kirk was hitting a lot more to make me feel better about trading Moreno away

[Spanky99]

I love our new OF

 

I do wish that Kirk was hitting a lot more to make me feel better about trading Moreno away

 

Kirk has passed Moreno statistically, bro. He's been on quite the heater. Not much power out of either of them.

[G-Snarls]

Kirk has passed Moreno statistically, bro. He's been on quite the heater.

 

That's good to hear

 

 

 

Hadn't really noticed somehow

[wamco]

Wake up G-snarls… how did you not see this?

 

Moreno 703ops .6 fwar

Kirk 681ops .5 fwar

 

Last 5g Kirk has went 5-17 with no extra base hits, no walks, 1r and 2 rbi.

 

3 extra base hits in the month of May. Dude is on fire!!

[Spanky99]

Wake up G-snarls… how did you not see this?

 

Moreno 703ops .6 fwar

Kirk 681ops .5 fwar

 

Last 5g Kirk has went 5-17 with no extra base hits, no walks, 1r and 2 rbi.

 

3 extra base hits in the month of May. Dude is on fire!!

 

Yeah, cause hitting .381 in the last week is terrible, right? You miss the part where I commented on neither of them are hitting for power? Nah... cause you're too f***ing stupid. wRC+???

[max silver]

Yeah, cause hitting .381 in the last week is terrible, right? You miss the part where I commented on neither of them are hitting for power? Nah... cause you're too f***ing stupid. wRC+???

 

Uh I just looked up Kirk's numbers and he's hit .294 over the last week, but only good for a 63 WRC+.

[Spanky99]

Uh I just looked up Kirk's numbers and he's hit .294 over the last week, but only good for a 63 WRC+.

 

The 25th to yesterday... .381 with a 116 wRC+ ... Moreno .179 with a wRC+ 9

[Jimcanuck]

Jesus you guys it's SSS and meaningless.

[Spanky99]

Jesus you guys it's SSS and meaningless.

 

Basically, I had to battle my stance he's coming on, though. Also, he has a higher wRC+ than Moreno on the season now, which I stated off the top.

[Stangstag]

Basically, I had to battle my stance he's coming on, though. Also, he has a higher wRC+ than Moreno on the season now, which I stated off the top.

 

Yeah but what about batting avridge

[Spanky99]

Yeah but what about batting avridge

 

lol

[wamco]

Yes that magical random “6 game sample “ which starts with a 3/4 day. During this stretch his ops went up a whopping 14 pts from 667 to 681. Back it up a game before he went 0/2 and it went up a total of 3 points.

 

Be Better spanky.

 

Wrc+ for thought per segment on mlb now on mlbtv-

 

Gallo and FriedL have same wrc+

 

Gallo 200/333/508. 131 wrc+

FriedL 326/377/496 131 wrc+

[Spanky99]

Yes that magical random “6 game sample “ which starts with a 3/4 day. During this stretch his ops went up a whopping 14 pts from 667 to 681. Back it up a game before he went 0/2 and it went up a total of 3 points.

 

Be Better spanky.

 

Wrc+ for thought per segment on mlb now on mlbtv-

 

Gallo and FriedL have same wrc+

 

Gallo 200/333/508. 131 wrc+

FriedL 326/377/496 131 wrc+

 

lol... *facepalm*

[jaysblue]

I don't get why so many posters on here get all pissy when someone compares Kirk and Moreno. Like if you say anything positive about Moreno, they get all defensive. If you say something negative about Kirk, same thing.

 

It's okay to have different opinions on both catchers. Some posters might think Moreno could carve out a better career and that's fine. Some posters might think Kirk can be better long term and that's fine as well. It's like the pro Kirk side wants Moreno to fail badly just so they could prove a point lol. Like literally who cares? As long as Kirk is productive for the Jays and helps them win a World Series, that's the most important.

 

Kirk has been disappointing so far this season, and there is nothing wrong in saying that. He needs to start hitting for more power. But a lot homers on this board take offense when you criticize Kirk or heck even Varsho!

[jaysblue]

No offense is missing Teo's bat right now, he's marginally better than Varsho so far. This offense had Gurriel Jrs bat for 5 years, and only approached his current performance in the COVID shortened season. He's worse defensively this season, and still a bad baserunner.

 

So, yeah I guess you could say the offense missed LGJ's bat, but it doesn't miss the total package at all. even taking fWAR as perfect (which we all know it isn't...) there's 1 win difference between the 2 players a third of the way through the season. LGJ also hasnt slumped yet and Varsho hasnt heated up yet. The end of season numbers will be close enough (hopefully) that people will forget this was ever a thing.

 

Some posters on here were using excuses that since Varsho is on a new team and has a lot of pressure since the trade is the reason he is underperforming. Can we say the same thing about Teo with the Mariners and since he's in a contract year?

 

The Blue Jays offense are missing what Teo and LGJ bats were during their tenure with the Jays. Obviously Teo is struggling this season, though definitely this lineup is missing his production from 2020-2022.

 

Again, I don't have an issue with the trades the Jays made. Though many hitters on the Jays have been underperforming which makes it more noticeable.

[Spanky99]

I don't get why so many posters on here get all pissy when someone compares Kirk and Moreno. Like if you say anything positive about Moreno, they get all defensive. If you say something negative about Kirk, same thing.

 

It's okay to have different opinions on both catchers. Some posters might think Moreno could carve out a better career and that's fine. Some posters might think Kirk can be better long term and that's fine as well. It's like the pro Kirk side wants Moreno to fail badly just so they could prove a point lol. Like literally who cares? As long as Kirk is productive for the Jays and helps them win a World Series, that's the most important.

 

Kirk has been disappointing so far this season, and there is nothing wrong in saying that. He needs to start hitting for more power. But a lot homers on this board take offense when you criticize Kirk or heck even Varsho!

 

Who are you getting at? Numbers still matter, when it's brought up?

[Stangstag]

Some posters on here were using excuses that since Varsho is on a new team and has a lot of pressure since the trade is the reason he is underperforming. Can we say the same thing about Teo with the Mariners and since he's in a contract year?

 

The Blue Jays offense are missing what Teo and LGJ bats were during their tenure with the Jays. Obviously Teo is struggling this season, though definitely this lineup is missing his production from 2020-2022.

 

Again, I don't have an issue with the trades the Jays made. Though many hitters on the Jays have been underperforming which makes it more noticeable.

 

The Blue Jays are really missing Ross Stripling in the starting rotation. Should’ve extended him

[Spanky99]

Some posters on here were using excuses that since Varsho is on a new team and has a lot of pressure since the trade is the reason he is underperforming. Can we say the same thing about Teo with the Mariners and since he's in a contract year?

 

The Blue Jays offense are missing what Teo and LGJ bats were during their tenure with the Jays. Obviously Teo is struggling this season, though definitely this lineup is missing his production from 2020-2022.

 

Again, I don't have an issue with the trades the Jays made. Though many hitters on the Jays have been underperforming which makes it more noticeable.

 

Again... lol... you have to stop swiping s*** talk with facts, fool. Be specific, or don't cat call like a pussy. Name, names and be specific if you prefer to throw shade.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Spanky99

[Eat My Shatkins]

I can't believe Kirk as a sub .700 OPS. Never saw that coming. Same with Jansen really.

 

Also Whit with more fWAR than Vladdy lol

KK 3rd highest fWAR on the team.

 

What a weird season

[BigCecil]

I don't get why so many posters on here get all pissy when someone compares Kirk and Moreno. Like if you say anything positive about Moreno, they get all defensive. If you say something negative about Kirk, same thing.

 

It's okay to have different opinions on both catchers. Some posters might think Moreno could carve out a better career and that's fine. Some posters might think Kirk can be better long term and that's fine as well. It's like the pro Kirk side wants Moreno to fail badly just so they could prove a point lol. Like literally who cares? As long as Kirk is productive for the Jays and helps them win a World Series, that's the most important.

 

Kirk has been disappointing so far this season, and there is nothing wrong in saying that. He needs to start hitting for more power. But a lot homers on this board take offense when you criticize Kirk or heck even Varsho!

 

This is fair. Its like to justify an argument take the worst case scenario for one player and assume no upside. Then take the best case scenario for another.

 

Its ok to debate and critique Moreno/Kirk and the Varsho deal etc. It was a risky and expensive deal. As a GM, props for the balls to do it. How this is viewed is going to evolve over time.

 

I think the facts are so far are:

 

- LGJ has double his 2022 HR total and he is raking. Will he cool off? Sure, but the HRs are staying on the board. On D, I havent seen anything but I'm sure he still sucks.

 

- Kirk has underperformed expectations and the power has not been there.

 

- Varsho is a D gem, but an 81 wRC+ and 0.4 WAR is underperforming my expectations. On pace for under 2 WAR.

 

- Moreno and Kirk are both noodle bats and Moreno has been better defensively.

[wamco]

Again... lol... you have to stop swiping s*** talk with facts, fool. Be specific, or don't cat call like a pussy. Name, names and be specific if you prefer to throw shade.

 

Or post like an adult like he did.

 

Alejandro “en fuego” Kirk keeps up the torrid pace with a 1/4 night while simultaneously keeping his non-extra base streak alive at 9 games.

[jaysblue]

The Blue Jays are really missing Ross Stripling in the starting rotation. Should’ve extended him

 

We're not talking about Stripling but okay. There were a lot of posters that wanted him back and in hindsight that contract he signed with the Giants looked pretty decent.

 

I know he has sucked with the Giants but who knows if he still was kept around in Toronto. If he was still here, don't think he would be this bad. He seemed comfortable pitching here. Kind of like how Marco Estrada was here with the Jays.

 

Given the way Manoah has pitched this season, Stripling would have been a helpful arm to have now. Granted, not pitching like he is with the Giants obviously. But yeah at $12.5M per season, that's a lot to pay for a guy who is your No. 5 starter, along with having Kikuchi and his $12M starting the season in the pen. Plus the Jays FO thought Mitch White could be the next Stripling but that hasn't worked out thus far. So unlikely was going to happen.

[Jimcanuck]

The Blue Jays are really missing Ross Stripling in the starting rotation. Should’ve extended him

 

Has he righted the ship this season?

[G-Snarls]

 

I think the facts are so far are:

 

- LGJ has double his 2022 HR total and he is raking. Will he cool off? Sure, but the HRs are staying on the board. On D, I havent seen anything but I'm sure he still sucks.

 

 

Even when he makes plays it's kinda ugly:

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/gurriel-jr-slides-for-late-grab-and-stowers-makes-leaping-catch-at-the-wall-mlb-plays-of-the-day/