WILDCARD GDT: 2/3 (yes we're going to 3 games) Mariners @ Blue Jays (4:07et)

[jaysblue]

My two cents on this season:

 

- this roster was flawed from Day One. The homers on this board who love Ross Atkins/Shaprio and who kissed their ass all season and at the trade deadline need to really give their head a shake. There is something fundamentally wrong with this team. Two years of disappointing results.

 

- Weak bullpen: again we saw how this bullpen had some holes especially in a game like this. No way you blow an 8-1 lead. Mayza and Bass were awful. Garcia and Romano did a solid job. Though if the Jays want to shorten the game, they need an elite pen. And we saw they don't have one to finish a game from the 6th inning with an 8-1 lead. I said this even after the trade deadline.

 

- Weak roster depth: I liked the Merrifield acquisition at the trade deadline but this team since last offseason never focused on building roster depth. We saw them throw away ABs on Tapia and Zimmer most of the season. Please go out and get a solid reliable 4th outfielder during the offseason instead of ignoring that part of your roster.

 

- Trade deadline: while I said the Blue Jays didn't do that bad at the trade deadline and approved the moves they made, they weren't any acquisitions that took this team to the "next level."

 

I hope this team during the offseason decides to focus on other areas of the roster rather than just a starting nine and the front of their rotation. We saw this team lacking in the bullpen and with their roster depth all season long.

 

Most importantly, some serious questions need to be asked about their so called franchise players - Vladdy and Bo. Are they going to be the leaders of this team and take this team to the "next level"? I still give them both another chance in 2023, though if they both don't live up to their expectations again, then you have to shake some things up.

 

The 2023 season is very important. You still have Teo and Chapman under control. Springer and Gausman will be a year older and you hope Berrios rebounds. You still have your main young core under control such as Vladdy, Bo, Kirk, and Manoah. No messing around and being cheap on building a stronger roster. The window is now!

[Stangstag]

Probably. Like holding Britton for the "save". Throw JBJ into LF for Whit or do a LF/RF shift with Teo.

 

If you want to take Springer out later, move JBJ to CF and throw Tapia in LF then. the whole season is on the line and you were way up. Tapia is just bad defensively. 9th on OF jump which came into play in this game.

 

This. Absolutely no reason to bring in Tapia over Jackie with a 7 run lead. Moronic decision making.

[Stangstag]

Ok my two cents on the game:

 

The game:

 

- no way the Blue Jays should have blown 8-1 lead. You have your best pitcher on the mound with 2 outs in the 6th and at 95 pitches, you continue to let him pitch. You're not talking about your No. 4 or 5 starter on the mound. That is why you pay Gausman the big bucks. Awful decision by John Schneider or the front office, whoever made that call. Given how the Blue Jays bullpen isn't an elite pen to begin with and that with a possible Game 3 looming where all hands are on deck, you wanted Gausman to at least go 6 or maybe a little into the 7th. Worst case scenario, he does exactly what Mayza did and you're winning 8-5 after the 6th.

 

- feel really sorry for Romano. Guy almost got out of it but a damn blooper into CF. Should have been Springers ball all the way. Hope he's okay.

 

- Tapia: was awful defensively. Took bad routes to the ball and his positioning was awful. This is why he was a negative WAR player for most of the season. Yes he finished with a 0.3 WAR, but again it's disappointing the Blue Jays didn't look to upgrade on him at the deadline.

 

The game today was way more exciting than yesterday at least. Memorable experience.

 

Another thing, if Espy doesn’t make that error in the 1st than Gausman has 10-15 fewer pitches and maybe he stays in longer.

[Solaxys]

You still have your main young core under control such as Vladdy, Bo, Kirk, and Manoah. No messing around and being cheap on building a stronger roster.

 

Our core itself is flawed though, aside from Manoah (but I feel like he played out of his mind this year and might get better based on his work ethic/more endurance training or might not and get unlucky next year - xFIP of 3.98).

 

Kirk - hits well but has limited power (.ISO of 130) and doesn't have the speed to abuse that (stealing bases) and he also seems to get fatigued very easily. Maybe he makes strides with his health.

Vlad - immature, somehow decided to have little to no plate discipline this year, peppers the ground, explosive athlete but also long-term, no idea how he's going to shape up or what form we are gonna get

Bo - works hard but still awful at throwing, dude wants to be a hero and that has cost him quite a bit this year (including playoffs), maybe September is his true form or is the rest of the year his true form and September was just when he had a hot streak.

 

Like the question marks are there.

[Stangstag]

Need high K bullpen arms. End of story.

 

Bass was supposed to be that guy. Need more next year. Pearson should be a BP arm. Maybe even let Kikuchi stay in the BP and see if has success

[jaysblue]

Our core itself is flawed though, aside from Manoah (but I feel like he played out of his mind this year and might get better based on his work ethic/more endurance training or might not and get unlucky next year - xFIP of 3.98).

 

Kirk - hits well but has limited power (.ISO of 130) and doesn't have the speed to abuse that (stealing bases) and he also seems to get fatigued very easily. Maybe he makes strides with his health.

Vlad - immature, somehow decided to have little to no plate discipline this year, peppers the ground, explosive athlete but also long-term, no idea how he's going to shape up or what form we are gonna get

Bo - works hard but still awful at throwing, dude wants to be a hero and that has cost him quite a bit this year (including playoffs), maybe September is his true form or is the rest of the year his true form and September was just when he had a hot streak.

 

Like the question marks are there.

 

Yeah the question marks are there, agreed. I still would give them another chance in 2023 to see if they come close or return to their 2021 form. Even if Bo and Vlad do what they did this season in 2023, Blue Jays are still a Postseason contender. You just need to patch up other areas on the roster.

 

There could be some drop-off from Manoah, but lets hope that is picked up with Berrios rebounding in 2023. As well, it would be nice if the Blue Jays can sign an arm like Carlos Rodon to this rotation. Would really take this team to the "next level."

[5ToolPhenom]

It's weird, looking at Bo's stats, they're way better this year than I would've imagined. It seemed in crucial situations that he was always disappointing, but statistically, he had a great year. It didn't feel like it to me.

[jaysblue]

Bass was supposed to be that guy. Need more next year. Pearson should be a BP arm. Maybe even let Kikuchi stay in the BP and see if has success

 

But he wasn't haha.

[Stangstag]

Yeah the question marks are there, agreed. I still would give them another chance in 2023 to see if they come close or return to their 2021 form. Even if Bo and Vlad do what they did this season in 2023, Blue Jays are still a Postseason contender. You just need to patch up other areas on the roster.

 

There could be some drop-off from Manoah, but lets hope that is picked up with Berrios rebounding in 2023. As well, it would be nice if the Blue Jays can sign an arm like Carlos Rodon to this rotation. Would really take this team to the "next level."

 

George Springer

Distance covered: 84 feet

Distance needed: 82 feet

 

Ouch

[Plat]

The game seemed too big for Schneider, awful decision to take Gausman out with one out left, he will never live that down.

[Plat]

One thing I dislike about this core is they talk too much without actually accomplishing anything.

[BigCecil]

Rewatched the Bo nonsense, dude needs to stop playing hero ball. He should not have f***ing tried to even attempt that - did that in NY series too.

 

Not sure I understand your point. I always played and coached the IF goes hard for a ball like that until called off by an OF. Did George ever call? Or was it just one of those no man's land tweeners that ends up with the misery I am currently experiencing?

[Solaxys]

Not sure I understand your point. I always played and coached IF goes hard fill for a ball like that until called off by an OF. Did George ever call? Or was it just one of those no man's land tweeners that ends up with the misery I am currently experiencing?

 

He called it like three times - check the video I posted (tweet) in General Jays Discussion.

 

Bo does this - he completely ignores OF calls and tries to heroball it. Did it in the NY series as well, called both Springer and Teo off and then dropped the ball.

[BigCecil]

He called it like three times - check the video I posted (tweet) in General Jays Discussion.

 

Bo does this - he completely ignores OF calls and tries to heroball it. Did it in the NY series as well, called both Springer and Teo off and then dropped the ball.

That's 100% on Bo then. f***. 100%. He should have veered off.

[Captain_Obvious]

He called it like three times - check the video I posted (tweet) in General Jays Discussion.

 

Bo does this - he completely ignores OF calls and tries to heroball it. Did it in the NY series as well, called both Springer and Teo off and then dropped the ball.

 

I doubt he "ignored" Springer. He probably did not hear him.

[jaysblue]

I even downloaded the Sportsnet app and signed into my Sportsnet Now account to watch the replay of that play at the game and was even saying Bo shouldn't have gone that far and let Springer go for it. Was a complete disaster.

[DigitalRock]

Total choke, embarrassment.

[BCZ]

Bo wants to be the hero at all times... it's the reason he swings at everything and never walks especially in critical situations... it's the reason he just put Springer in the hospital...

[BCZ]

You'd think karma is coming for Seattle with them throwing at our guys heads and all...

[max silver]

He called it like three times - check the video I posted (tweet) in General Jays Discussion.

 

Bo does this - he completely ignores OF calls and tries to heroball it. Did it in the NY series as well, called both Springer and Teo off and then dropped the ball.

 

This isn't anywhere close to the play in New York. That one was an easy catch for Teoscar compared to this play where it was a next to impossible play for both Bo and Springer. Are you really suggesting that you want your starting short stop giving up on a pop fly just past the infield in an elimination game with the bases loaded? Bo deserves plenty of flak for how inconsistent his defensive play has been at short stop, but it's nowhere close to reasonable to assign blame to Bo for this play as it was one of those no-man's land pop-ups that was perfectly placed between the infield and outfield.

[Stangstag]

I went to both games. Today was fun until they blew it, I feel sick.

 

Sucks going to 15 games in the regular season, spending all that time and money only to waste a weekend attending 2 playoff games and lose both. 162 game grind, 92 wins, and 0 playoff wins to show for it.

 

Im not gonna bother going to the playoff games if they make it next year. And i’ll be going to less games for sure. I’ll watch from the comfort of my couch.

[Solaxys]

This isn't anywhere close to the play in New York. That one was an easy catch for Teoscar compared to this play where it was a next to impossible play for both Bo and Springer. Are you really suggesting that you want your starting short stop giving up on a pop fly just past the infield in an elimination game with the bases loaded? Bo deserves plenty of flak for how inconsistent his defensive play has been at short stop, but it's nowhere close to reasonable to assign blame to Bo for this play as it was one of those no-man's land pop-ups that was perfectly placed between the infield and outfield.

 

Springer had a 75% probability to catch it based on the route he took. He stopped because he saw Bo call him off. Again check the tweet by Chris Black.

Even if he didn't catch - ball would be infront, 1 or 2 runs at most instead of bases clearing.

 

He needs to realize what he's doing - if that was not a 100% play for him, why risk that? Why override your CF (who have the better angle whether the play is made or not made) when they are calling for it?

 

If it was only HIM who could get to it, then fine. Springer was calling for it and you do not, as an IF, ever override the outfield who have a better angle on flyballs

[jaysblue]

I went to both games. Today was fun until they blew it, I feel sick.

 

Sucks going to 15 games in the regular season, spending all that time and money only to waste a weekend attending 2 playoff games and lose both. 162 game grind, 92 wins, and 0 playoff wins to show for it.

 

Im not gonna bother going to the playoff games if they make it next year. And i’ll be going to less games for sure. I’ll watch from the comfort of my couch.

 

Over the last couple of years with sporting events in general, I've become like that. I love going to live sporting events, especially if I'm travelling and have a chance to visit different ballparks or sporting venues or to see a Toronto team on the road. Though for home games here, I've cut back a lot. I used to go to like 20-25 Blue Jays games per season like in early part of the last decade. As well went to every home Postseason game in 2015 and 2016. Even for the Raptors, as a season ticket holder, I would go to maybe like 10-12 games per season, though now maybe 3 or 4.

 

I have no problem watching a game in the comfort of my own home. Don't need to worry about spending 40 or so minutes packed on public transit, spending money on the tickets + $100 on food/drinks and then 40 minutes or so on public transit back. Don't have to wait in line at the restrooms, wait in line at concessions. I know I'm sounding old now haha. Also, I do like listening to the TV commentary and watching replays, where at the games you don't get that.

 

I've learned my lesson when it comes to Blue Jays and Raptors Playoff tickets. Best to buy them off StubHub on game day for cheaper prices than the box office. Go to a Playoff game that means something like a Game 5 or Game 7 or a series clincher if you could.

 

Like even with today's game, I was dreading just getting downtown and the crowds. This was my only second Jays game this season. As much as it was a great atmosphere and if the Jays managed to have a walk-off in the 9th, the place would have been electric. Though I would have been perfectly fine watching the game at my own home, drinking my own beer, ordering a pizza or cooking some wings in the oven, or watching the game at a place like Earls during Happy Hour (which I did before going down to the game haha). Even with the high cost of everything these days and inflation, need to cut back in certain areas. Going out to a sporting event these days is costly. Money for the tickets, along with money for transit/parking + drinks/food.

 

Even at today's game, I didn't buy a beer at all. Can't justify spending $15 for a Premium beer when I could buy that same beer can at the LCBO for $3 or even get a pint of beer at a bar for $7 or 8. Biggest ripoff ever!

[max silver]

Springer had a 75% probability to catch it based on the route he took. He stopped because he saw Bo call him off. Again check the tweet by Chris Black.

Even if he didn't catch - ball would be infront, 1 or 2 runs at most instead of bases clearing.

 

He needs to realize what he's doing - if that was not a 100% play for him, why risk that? Why override your CF (who have the better angle whether the play is made or not made) when they are calling for it?

 

If it was only HIM who could get to it, then fine. Springer was calling for it and you do not, as an IF, ever override the outfield who have a better angle on flyballs

 

I finally was settled enough after the crushing defeat and went back and checked out the replay from the play in question. I see that Springer actually had a very good shot at catching this ball and had to change course due to Bo being in the way. Given the volume in the building it's highly unlikely that Bo could have heard Springer calling for it. I just have a hard time being terribly upset with Bo for the way this play turned out, given the circumstances at play.

[Stangstag]

Over the last couple of years with sporting events in general, I've become like that. I love going to live sporting events, especially if I'm travelling and have a chance to visit different ballparks or sporting venues or to see a Toronto team on the road. Though for home games here, I've cut back a lot. I used to go to like 20-25 Blue Jays games per season like in early part of the last decade. As well went to every home Postseason game in 2015 and 2016. Even for the Raptors, as a season ticket holder, I would go to maybe like 10-12 games per season, though now maybe 3 or 4.

 

I have no problem watching a game in the comfort of my own home. Don't need to worry about spending 40 or so minutes packed on public transit, spending money on the tickets + $100 on food/drinks and then 40 minutes or so on public transit back. Don't have to wait in line at the restrooms, wait in line at concessions. I know I'm sounding old now haha. Also, I do like listening to the TV commentary and watching replays, where at the games you don't get that.

 

I've learned my lesson when it comes to Blue Jays and Raptors Playoff tickets. Best to buy them off StubHub on game day for cheaper prices than the box office. Go to a Playoff game that means something like a Game 5 or Game 7 or a series clincher if you could.

 

Like even with today's game, I was dreading just getting downtown and the crowds. This was my only second Jays game this season. As much as it was a great atmosphere and if the Jays managed to have a walk-off in the 9th, the place would have been electric. Though I would have been perfectly fine watching the game at my own home, drinking my own beer, ordering a pizza or cooking some wings in the oven, or watching the game at a place like Earls during Happy Hour (which I did before going down to the game haha). Even with the high cost of everything these days and inflation, need to cut back in certain areas. Going out to a sporting event these days is costly. Money for the tickets, along with money for transit/parking + drinks/food.

 

Even at today's game, I didn't buy a beer at all. Can't justify spending $15 for a Premium beer when I could buy that same beer can at the LCBO for $3 or even get a pint of beer at a bar for $7 or 8. Biggest ripoff ever!

 

Yeah man the trains were f***ing brutal this year (coming from Burlington). Even heading home at like 10:30pm, train is f***ing packed all the way til Oakville. Leaving the game after is definitely the worst part.

 

And the drinks are grossly overpriced. 14$ for a beer. 20$ for a rum at coke at the flight deck. Borderline theft.

[Solaxys]

A fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, shame on you is in full force for next season.

 

Don't think anyone's going to buy into 'odds' or 'WS favorites' nonsense anymore until they prove it

[jaysblue]

A fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, shame on you is in full force for next season.

 

Don't think anyone's going to buy into 'odds' or 'WS favorites' nonsense anymore until they prove it

 

Don't watch or listen to Sportsnet. They will prop up this team like no tomorrow. Even after today's loss, they were saying how the future still remains bright and the Jays will be back better and stronger even next year. Biased coverage!

[Carlos Danger]

Whats funny is that in this game it was luck. We’d be two runs up and game over without an astounding level of luck from seattle.

 

However, yea atkins sucks at developing pitching or acquiring bullpen pitching. Thats been obvious forever though.

 

You don’t score 10 runs on luck. It has to do with s***** pitching and D. You also make your own luck by making contact etc.

[jaysblue]

Yeah man the trains were f***ing brutal this year (coming from Burlington). Even heading home at like 10:30pm, train is f***ing packed all the way til Oakville. Leaving the game after is definitely the worst part.

 

And the drinks are grossly overpriced. 14$ for a beer. 20$ for a rum at coke at the flight deck. Borderline theft.

 

Yeah I took the train to Long Branch tonight after the game - was packed in like sardines. At least I didn't have to go too far. But even for two people on the GO Train and from Long Branch which is only two stops from Union - $20 RT.

 

I've stopped drinking at these venues. The prices are ridiculous and they keep gauging fans. Some fans buy 3 or 4 drinks each at the games. That's close to $60 for just four cans of beer lmao. You would think someone would start a movement and encourage people to stop paying these ludicrous prices at sporting events! Maybe put pressure on these venues to lower their prices. Beer cans should only be $8-10 at most, and that is still even expensive. $15 for a Mill Street Organic LMAO. I can buy a 6 pack for that same price.

[Dagagad]

You don’t score 10 runs on luck. It has to do with s***** pitching and D. You also make your own luck by making contact etc.

 

You can absolutely score 3 runs on luck. I just literally saw it today.