Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Laika]

Bellinger will be another project to add to the list of,

 

Vladdy’s launch angle.

Bo’s defence.

Kikichi

Ryu, if he comes back in August.

Berrios bounce back season.

 

The list grows.

 

Yeah?

 

Every team has this list

[Omar]

Yeah?

 

Every team has this list

 

Sure but why compound it if you can avoid?

[Laika]

Sure but why compound it if you can avoid?

 

Because absent a trade the CF alternatives are

 

Kiermaier, who is just as flawed

Nimmo, at an astronomical cost

Springer, who might die out there

[Daniel Labude]

If we are going to go the Bellinger route I think we'd strongly have to consider Kiermaier instead. He very well may be the better hitter than Bellinger and he's probably a better baserunner and I'm almost certain he's a better fielder. He's older but it doesn't really matter on a 1 year deal. I guess he's got more health concerns but I bet he signs for significantly less and I'm not sure he's the worse player.

 

[Daniel Labude]

Bellinger will be another project to add to the list of,

 

Vladdy’s launch angle.

Bo’s defence.

Kikichi

Ryu, if he comes back in August.

Berrios bounce back season.

 

The list grows.

 

We won't see Ryu pitch for the Jays again is my guess

[Laika]

If we are going to go the Bellinger route I think we'd strongly have to consider Kiermaier instead. He very well may be the better hitter than Bellinger and he's probably a better baserunner and I'm almost certain he's a better fielder. He's older but it doesn't really matter on a 1 year deal. I guess he's got more health concerns but I bet he signs for significantly less and I'm not sure he's the worse player.

 

The problem is that KK has a ton of leverage since there are no CF on the market.

 

Even with his age and health problems he can probably wait a few months and milk a 3 year deal out of someone.

 

Whereas Bellinger is looking for a one year pillow contract so it's in his best interest to just pick his team NOW so that his ideal spot doesn't get plugged by KK or Nimmo and he has to go to a different setting.

 

Toronto needs to be decisive and act quickly.

[wamco]

If we are going to go the Bellinger route I think we'd strongly have to consider Kiermaier instead. He very well may be the better hitter than Bellinger and he's probably a better baserunner and I'm almost certain he's a better fielder. He's older but it doesn't really matter on a 1 year deal. I guess he's got more health concerns but I bet he signs for significantly less and I'm not sure he's the worse player.

 

From another site-

 

Why I like Kevin Kiermaier, expanded edition:

 

1. he's not losing speed at the usual rate- at age 26-28, he averaged 29.3 ft/s; at age 29-32, he averaged 29.3 ft/s, including 29.2 last year. He was the 7th fastest player of his age at age 28 and he's been the second fastest of his age the last 2 years

2. I don't buy the 85 wRC+ projection; he has a 97 wRC+ over his career and it was 94, 101 and 90 over the last 3, and his xwOBAs over the last 3 years were almost exactly his career average

3. he's been a fabulous baserunner over his career, and the metrics suggest that he has lost nothing in that regard

4. there is the promise that the surgery will improve his functioning for a year or three; the hip has been a lingering issue.

5. last year, Kiermaier had a 5.0 IFFB rate and a 17.5 % HR/FB rate; it's the first time a ball in the air was an effective weapon for him; I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he blows by his personal bests entirely and becomes one of the very few players who is considerably better at age 35 than at age 25.

[Terminator]

The problem is that KK has a ton of leverage since there are no CF on the market.

 

Even with his age and health problems he can probably wait a few months and milk a 3 year deal out of someone.

 

Whereas Bellinger is looking for a one year pillow contract so it's in his best interest to just pick his team NOW so that his ideal spot doesn't get plugged by KK or Nimmo and he has to go to a different setting.

 

Toronto needs to be decisive and act quickly.

 

Ok well if KK is getting a 3 year deal then forget it. I was assuming one year deals for both for some reason but I suppose KK will be looking for a two year deal at least. I think if the AAV is low enough I'd still consider KK but that's a good point about Bellinger looking to sign now and KK milking the market.

 

This is why I still post here. Even an old dog like me can still learn new tricks. You might have to sift through piles upon piles of Jansen fanboy ******** but eventually you get insightful nuggets like this.

[Spanky99]

lol

[Jonn]

Are we really talking about Kevin Kiermaier right now?

[Terminator]

LMAO @ The Bellinger fanboys acting like they are too good for Kevin Kiermaier! You have got to be s***ing me!

[NiagaraJaysFan]

Kiermaier also wins the handsomeness prize. That can’t be overlooked! :-) He’s a bit too cocky for my taste tho.

[Jonn]

LMAO @ The Bellinger fanboys acting like they are too good for Kevin Kiermaier! You have got to be s***ing me!

 

Nobody’s a fan boy lol. I think everyone is intrigued at the idea of Bellinger figuring it out again and having him do it here while playing great Defense and being an asset on the Bases in the process. He’s to good of a talent to just be a pumpkin now. There’s so much upside in a one year signing.

 

I love his swing so I wanna see him unload at the Rogers Centre with his shoulder fully healthy.

[jaysblue]

Kiermaier is pretty dreamy haha

[Laika]

Since 2020

 

KK - 96 wRC+, 5.1 fWAR (in only 770 PA), +13 UZR/150

CB - 78 wRC+, 2.1 fWAR (in more PA), 0 UZR/150

 

I mean if money is the same it's not even close.

 

I'm not even sure Bellinger has more "realistic upside" at this point. Yeah he has more lotto-ticket upside but if KK stays healthy (big question) and does not decline he could post 3-4 fWAR.

 

But if it's one year for CB vs multi-year deal for mid 30s Kiermaier then give me Bellinger, the lotto ticket hacker

[jaysblue]

Interesting read from MLB.com: https://www.mlb.com/news/ranking-shohei-ohtani-trade-fits

 

Ohtani's top trade destinations if Angels eye a deal

 

2) Blue Jays

 

Toronto doesn’t really have to do much of anything at all, if it doesn’t want to; nearly the entire core that made it to the Wild Card round still remains. You could add some relievers and call it a day, if you really wanted to. But there’s an argument to be made that the core could use some shaking up, too -- that the young relatives of famous ballplayers could use some new voices around them.

 

Baseball-wise, it’s a fit, as it would be for nearly any team. The DH spot is flexible, especially if they trade one of their surplus of catchers in an Ohtani deal, and the need for a lefty bat has been an obvious one for some time. The rotation does have Alek Manoah and Kevin Gausman atop it, but Ross Stripling is a free agent, Hyun-jin Ryu is injured, and José Berríos and Yusei Kikuchi were -- charitably -- inconsistent in 2022. In a tough division, sometimes loud moves need to be made. None would be louder than this.

[Daniel Labude]

Since 2020

 

KK - 96 wRC+, 5.1 fWAR (in only 770 PA), +13 UZR/150

CB - 78 wRC+, 2.1 fWAR (in more PA), 0 UZR/150

 

I mean if money is the same it's not even close.

 

I'm not even sure Bellinger has more "realistic upside" at this point. Yeah he has more lotto-ticket upside but if KK stays healthy (big question) and does not decline he could post 3-4 fWAR.

 

But if it's one year for CB vs multi-year deal for mid 30s Kiermaier then give me Bellinger, the lotto ticket hacker

 

Now do the last 4 years instead of 3 lmao

[Omar]

Bongos would have been in heaven if KK was on the Jays while he was skipper.

[Jonn]

Bongos would have been in heaven if KK was on the Jays while he was skipper.

 

He would have hit leadoff when Springer wasn’t playing.

[Jimcanuck]

KK will do anything to win, even steal the other team's s***.

[Omar]

Do you think you have any weaknesses as an outfielder?

 

KK: Yes, my teammates.

[connorp]

The same guys pitching for KK are the same guys that were pining for JBJ as a FA. There were lots too. Same stuff.

Yuck. 33yo CF next year who saw his defensive value take a hit in 2022. Give all your heads a shake. You learned nothing from your desire to sign JBJ

[connorp]

Like JBJ, just give it less than a season maybe and you can have him for league min when someone DFAs him

[connorp]

Since 2020

 

KK - 96 wRC+, 5.1 fWAR (in only 770 PA), +13 UZR/150

CB - 78 wRC+, 2.1 fWAR (in more PA), 0 UZR/150

 

I mean if money is the same it's not even close.

 

I'm not even sure Bellinger has more "realistic upside" at this point. Yeah he has more lotto-ticket upside but if KK stays healthy (big question) and does not decline he could post 3-4 fWAR.

 

But if it's one year for CB vs multi-year deal for mid 30s Kiermaier then give me Bellinger, the lotto ticket hacker

 

Look-y here. The chief of the “sign JBJ crowd to get some sneaky WAR value”

More graphs and charts. Perfect

[Omar]

If you tightwads want to go the cheap route put Springer in CF (~100 games) and have Biggio and Merrifield spell him for the rest. Sign Benintendi. Throw the rest of your resources on arms. Then pray.

[Laika]

Now do the last 4 years instead of 3 lmao

 

Why do you think that's funny?

 

Kiermaier has been better steadily for years. Everyone knows Bellinger was amazing once but that has almost no influence on his projections at this point.

[Laika]

If you tightwads want to go the cheap route put Springer in CF (~100 games) and have Biggio and Merrifield spell him for the rest. Sign Benintendi. Throw the rest of your resources on arms. Then pray.

 

Benintendi is not the "cheap route". He also sucks.

[Laika]

Look-y here. The chief of the “sign JBJ crowd to get some sneaky WAR value”

More graphs and charts. Perfect

 

are you okay?

[connorp]

are you okay?

 

It was a little forced there, yeah. But honestly it’s true. Same thing couple years back with JBJ

[Spanky99]

They're both s***, lol. Not sexy at all with the bat.