GDT Orioles @ Blue Jays game 2/3

[glory]

I'm a die hard since inception. I'm not as glass half full Jays fan as I'd like to be, and I'm no FO fanboy. So my wife is used to me Jays bitching.

 

I find most Jays seasons frustrating, but this one is a whole new level. This pied piper narrative that Shatkins is playing for 4D chess and we will contend NEXT YEAR and well into the future, I just don't buy. I just don't see it...yet...at least. What gets easier in 2022 as Ray and Marcus WAR evaporates, unless we pay big $ just to get back to where we were. Guys are hitting Arb years. Whats it cost to give us a truly competitive bullpen next year? Our division is absolutely brutal, but its our reality. This team this year could have made a real push. We had a s*** pen, a s*** manager and no impact LHH options (no disrespect to Dickerson and Tellez didnt hit for us). All of those issues were addressable for a price. Nates looking like a semi-bust. There are some good looking positives in the farm to move or develop. We have some moveable semi-assets on the roster.

We'll see. We are standing on our head to rationalize the Berrios deal, but this Board is/was full of wet dream posts about the assets we gave up...who are apparently worthless now. To me we half assed the deadline and poked a hole in the narrative about the thousand year Reich competitive team notion moving what we did for a year of Berrios to backstop Ray loss.

 

Anyway...I'll be keeping an eye on tonight of course and the Jays but man this has been a rough one, save the emergence of Vlad.

 

The Jays had the best case scenario type of off season where practically every acquisition they made greatly exceeded expectations, and they'll still finish 4th place in the division and anywhere from 7th to 8th in the AL (depending on what happens to Seattle down the stretch....don't see the Jays overtaking Oakland or Boston). Semien is a top 3 WAR player this year and Ray is a legit Cy Young candidate. Matz has been a very solid bottom of the rotation option. Springer has mashed when healthy. Yates got hurt in spring training but the Jays signed him knowing he was hurt to begin with. I don't think you can dream about having an off season this good most years, and it amounted to nothing despite the fact that Vlad broke out, Teoscar has been better than expected, Bo is Bo, McGuire was actually more than serviceable when injuries hit the starting C's, etc. A lot went right. In fact, too much went right for the Jays not to have made a playoff spot. The sad thing is if Manfred's vision of expanded playoffs were a reality right now (7 teams in each league), the Jays would still miss the playoffs as of today.

 

One of the more frustrating seasons in recent memory. The last time I remember being this annoyed by a season was 2014, when the Jays were literally in a playoff spot (2nd WC) on July 31 but didn't do a damn thing at the deadline to improve the roster.

[Stangstag]

The Jays had the best case scenario type of off season where practically every acquisition they made greatly exceeded expectations, and they'll still finish 4th place in the division and anywhere from 7th to 8th in the AL (depending on what happens to Seattle down the stretch....don't see the Jays overtaking Oakland or Boston). Semien is a top 3 WAR player this year and Ray is a legit Cy Young candidate. Matz has been a very solid bottom of the rotation option. Springer has mashed when healthy. Yates got hurt in spring training but the Jays signed him knowing he was hurt to begin with. I don't think you can dream about having an off season this good most years, and it amounted to nothing despite the fact that Vlad broke out, Teoscar has been better than expected, Bo is Bo, McGuire was actually more than serviceable when injuries hit the starting C's, etc. A lot went right. In fact, too much went right for the Jays not to have made a playoff spot. The sad thing is if Manfred's vision of expanded playoffs were a reality right now (7 teams in each league), the Jays would still miss the playoffs as of today.

 

One of the more frustrating seasons in recent memory. The last time I remember being this annoyed by a season was 2014, when the Jays were literally in a playoff spot (2nd WC) on July 31 but didn't do a damn thing at the deadline to improve the roster.

 

Its like we had the Redsox 2013 offseason... except no playoffs for us let alone a f***ing WS title.

 

This team was absolutely sunk by a bad bullpen and bad management. Also offense all going cold during a very important stretch.

 

Baseball can truly suck sometimes

[Eat My Shatkins]

The Jays had the best case scenario type of off season where practically every acquisition they made greatly exceeded expectations, and they'll still finish 4th place in the division and anywhere from 7th to 8th in the AL (depending on what happens to Seattle down the stretch....don't see the Jays overtaking Oakland or Boston). Semien is a top 3 WAR player this year and Ray is a legit Cy Young candidate. Matz has been a very solid bottom of the rotation option. Springer has mashed when healthy. Yates got hurt in spring training but the Jays signed him knowing he was hurt to begin with. I don't think you can dream about having an off season this good most years, and it amounted to nothing despite the fact that Vlad broke out, Teoscar has been better than expected, Bo is Bo, McGuire was actually more than serviceable when injuries hit the starting C's, etc. A lot went right. In fact, too much went right for the Jays not to have made a playoff spot. The sad thing is if Manfred's vision of expanded playoffs were a reality right now (7 teams in each league), the Jays would still miss the playoffs as of today.

 

One of the more frustrating seasons in recent memory. The last time I remember being this annoyed by a season was 2014, when the Jays were literally in a playoff spot (2nd WC) on July 31 but didn't do a damn thing at the deadline to improve the roster.

 

 

Jays sign Ray and Semien to 1 year "show me" deals and they are our WAR leaders with Ray getting Cy Young buzz now.

Vladdy breaks out and is an MVP candidate.

Manoah comes out of nowhere.

Stripling and Matz have strong seasons.

+115 run differential.

 

A lot of s*** went right.

 

4th place in the f***ing division, and Ray/Semien are FA's this off season.

 

Very frustrating.

[Stangstag]

Jays sign Ray and Semien to 1 year "show me" deals and they are our WAR leaders with Ray getting Cy Young buzz now.

Vladdy breaks out and is an MVP candidate.

Manoah comes out of nowhere.

Stripling and Matz have strong seasons.

+115 run differential.

 

A lot of s*** went right.

 

4th place in the f***ing division, and Ray/Semien are FA's this off season.

 

Very frustrating.

 

Things did go wrong though too

 

- big free agent signing Springer misses most of the year

- Gurriel takes a big step back

- Jansen sucks and injured most of the year

- Biggio sucks and injured most of the year

- Kirk injured for a good chunk of season

- top pitching prospect Pearson sucks/injured/is a complete non-factor

- Bullpen takes a bunch of hits/injuries/steps backwards, Romano the only reliable arm

- Ryu takes a bit of a step back from 2020

[BigCecil]

Things did go wrong though too

 

- big free agent signing Springer misses most of the year

- Gurriel takes a big step back

- Jansen sucks and injured most of the year

- Biggio sucks and injured most of the year

- Kirk injured for a good chunk of season

- top pitching prospect Pearson sucks/injured/is a complete non-factor

- Bullpen takes a bunch of hits/injuries/steps backwards, Romano the only reliable arm

- Ryu takes a bit of a step back from 2020

 

I think TB, NYY and BOS could make a bigger list in this category and they are still sitting on top of us.

 

- Glasnow

- Voit/Severino/major COVID IL

- Sale/ major COVID IL

 

Just a few of their notables. Some regression seasons from the likes Kiermaier and Clint Frazier etc etc.

 

On balance, Jays had a f*** of lot go right in 2021. Hard to repeat that.

[glory]

I think TB, NYY and BOS could make a bigger list in this category and they are still sitting on top of us.

 

- Glasnow

- Voit/Severino/major COVID IL

- Sale/ major COVID IL

 

Just a few of their notables. Some regression seasons from the likes Kiermaier and Clint Frazier etc etc.

 

On balance, Jays had a f*** of lot go right in 2021. Hard to repeat that.

 

Agreed. Every team is going to have an injury or bad luck here and there. Way more went right for the Jays than wrong, and the things that went right went VERY right. Rotation was healthy all year aside from minor time missed. The team's best starters (rotation and lineup) stayed healthy all year for the most part. I mean, we can look at things like Kirk's injury, or Biggio's regression, but that's small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. If Vlad, Bo, and others missed time, then we could have played the injury card.

 

The good news is the Jays are a very young team, so there's still a chance that the roster is ascending. Maybe we look back on this season as a 2016 Astros type of season where it was the calm before the explosion (although whether the Jays decide to cheat or not in 2022 is up to them).

[BigCecil]

Agreed. Every team is going to have an injury or bad luck here and there. Way more went right for the Jays than wrong, and the things that went right went VERY right. Rotation was healthy all year aside from minor time missed. The team's best starters (rotation and lineup) stayed healthy all year for the most part. I mean, we can look at things like Kirk's injury, or Biggio's regression, but that's small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. If Vlad, Bo, and others missed time, then we could have played the injury card.

 

The good news is the Jays are a very young team, so there's still a chance that the roster is ascending. Maybe we look back on this season as a 2016 Astros type of season where it was the calm before the explosion (although whether the Jays decide to cheat or not in 2022 is up to them).

 

Your earlier post said it well. We won the lottery in 21 with Ray and Marcus. Manoah was manna from heaven. We knew Vlad was good eventually but I didnt see a 170 wRC+ coming in 21, and he stayed healthy all year. As was Bo. Pretty incredible. I'd say Pearson was in "show me" territory coming into 2021 and he didn't. But i don't think expectations were as high for him.

 

Losing Springer probably cost us 2/4 wins overall for season but our comp can make same case with top guys they lost.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Pearson gave us what I thought Manoah would give us

Manoah gave us what I thought Pearson would give us

 

That balanced out for sure

 

Ray has given us what we'd expect from Ryu and Ryu is giving us what we might have expected from Ray, another balancing act.

 

Losing Yates, Merryweather and Phelps for the whole season, and having Chatwood and Dolis completely fall apart is pretty much what sunk this team.

 

And now that the bullpen seems to be doing a little better, the offense has gone into the tank.