Off Day Discussion #2: Are MLB players overpaid? Are they underpaid?

[TwistedLogic]

This is another divisive topic that most fans of baseball (and fans of sports in general) have passionate opinions on. Many fans are of the belief that players should shut up about salaries because they're already paid too much to play a kid's game. Others believe players are still underpaid relative to how much money the billionaire owners pocket and that the league and these revenue streams for these owners wouldn't exist if not for the players.

 

Which side of the fence do you fall on? Do you think players make too much or not enough? Or you think they make about as much as they should? Why do you feel the way that you do?

 

This is something I wanted to discuss now because it ties heavily into the topic I have in mind for next time.

[Deadpool]

Minor leaguers and players early in their careers are massively underpaid. Lindor is massively overpaid. Manfried is paid 500% too much.

[G-Snarls]

Minor leaguers and players early in their careers are massively underpaid. Lindor is massively overpaid. Manfried is paid 500% too much.

 

100% correct

 

Might as well end the discussion with that post

[Spanky99]

Depends on the player, but I'd say guys in their arb years are under paid. The owner's make huge money in comparison, mega bucks.

[Spanky99]

Minor leaguers and players early in their careers are massively underpaid. Lindor is massively overpaid. Manfried is paid 500% too much.

 

lol... yes! End thread. E/

[Abomination]

This is another divisive topic that most fans of baseball (and fans of sports in general) have passionate opinions on. Many fans are of the belief that players should shut up about salaries because they're already paid too much to play a kid's game. Others believe players are still underpaid relative to how much money the billionaire owners pocket and that the league and these revenue streams for these owners wouldn't exist if not for the players.

 

Which side of the fence do you fall on? Do you think players make too much or not enough? Or you think they make about as much as they should? Why do you feel the way that you do?

 

This is something I wanted to discuss now because it ties heavily into the topic I have in mind for next time.

 

IMO they are a bit overpaid, at least on the top end, but the minor league players are drastically underpaid. Most of the owners likely wouldn't own teams if they had no financial incentive to do so. They also potentially risk billions.

[Spanky99]

Meh, no ball player is over paid concerning what the owners make, not many casuals ever think about that. It's ridiculous.

[BigCecil]

Neither over paid nor under paid. Its a business and they make what someone is willing to pay them based on the market and negotiated CBA terms. Nobody is forced to play baseball at any level. I’d like to see minor leaguers make more and a lot of big leaguers get hurt or struggle and never see arb pay checks or free agency money, but that’s the system that was negotiated. Even the MLB min is a lot more than most people will ever make in a few years. Is the Lindor deal an overpay? 100%. But if an owner is willing to pay it then he is getting exactly what he should. Ultimately the limitation on payment will be driven by fans going to games and watching on TV, merch. Etc.

[TwistedLogic]

I guess another way to ask this question is to consider the impending CBA negotiations that will almost surely result in a lock out. Players are going to have a lot of demands while owners will be reluctant to give anything else up.

 

If you're picking a side in the war of attrition between owners and players, who do you think is more entitled to what they're going to be asking for in the CBA?

[Spanky99]

Neither over paid nor under paid. Its a business and they make what someone is willing to pay them based on the market and negotiated CBA terms. Nobody is forced to play baseball at any level. I’d like to see minor leaguers make more and a lot of big leaguers get hurt or struggle and never see arb pay checks or free agency money, but that’s the system that was negotiated. Even the MLB min is a lot more than most people will ever make in a few years. Is the Lindor deal an overpay? 100%. But if an owner is willing to pay it then he is getting exactly what he should. Ultimately the limitation on payment will be driven by fans going to games and watching on TV, merch. Etc.

 

Yeah, viewership has been the best ever, when they open the gate fully, you have owners with boners, bro. This Pandemic has folk salivating.

[Spanky99]

I guess another way to ask this question is to consider the impending CBA negotiations that will almost surely result in a lock out. Players are going to have a lot of demands while owners will be reluctant to give anything else up.

 

If you're picking a side in the war of attrition between owners and players, who do you think is more entitled to what they're going to be asking for in the CBA?

 

Players.

[Abomination]

If you're picking a side in the war of attrition between owners and players, who do you think is more entitled to what they're going to be asking for in the CBA?

 

Let's see what both sides actually ask for first.

[Olerud363]

This is another divisive topic that most fans of baseball (and fans of sports in general) have passionate opinions on. Many fans are of the belief that players should shut up about salaries because they're already paid too much to play a kid's game. Others believe players are still underpaid relative to how much money the billionaire owners pocket and that the league and these revenue streams for these owners wouldn't exist if not for the players.

 

Which side of the fence do you fall on? Do you think players make too much or not enough? Or you think they make about as much as they should? Why do you feel the way that you do?

 

This is something I wanted to discuss now because it ties heavily into the topic I have in mind for next time.

 

A related question is whether the market is rational, rational but naïve, or irrational

 

1. Rational - They have good projections about what guys will do, are handling uncertainty properly and know the value of a win.

 

2. Rational but naïve - The think they have good projections about what guys will do and the value of a win, but they don't.

 

3. Irrational - for some reason the market isn't working and guys are being given huge contracts when the information we have shows they shouldn't get those contracts.

 

Super-nuanced and complicated conversation, because it involves estimating the worth of 3 years of World Series contention vs other scenarios, etc.

 

However if 1. is true they get what they deserve. If 2, or 3 is true they are overpaid.

[z3r0s]

I want the players to be paid well, but they are paid stupid well at only one point in their careers. It would be better to see a system where guys get paid for what they are producing, no matter if they are in year 1, or year 10 in the show. And obviously to be paid better as they are coming up in the minors. I think I would be rooting for more fairly distributed pay more than anything.

 

The owners make too much for sure. Would be better (in fantasy world) if the cities / states owned the teams. Put the revenue from our dumb obsession with high performance kids sports back into society. Would also stop that 'public money into private arenas' nonsense.

[Olerud363]

I want the players to be paid well, but they are paid stupid well at only one point in their careers. It would be better to see a system where guys get paid for what they are producing, no matter if they are in year 1, or year 10 in the show. And obviously to be paid better as they are coming up in the minors. I think I would be rooting for more fairly distributed pay more than anything.

 

The owners make too much for sure. Would be better (in fantasy world) if the cities / states owned the teams. Put the revenue from our dumb obsession with high performance kids sports back into society. Would also stop that 'public money into private arenas' nonsense.

 

So why are the owners/gms offering contracts that pay big money for ages 34+ ??

 

That's what I am interested in. Is it rational or is there something else going on?

 

a) owners/gms willing to lose money to win

owners/gms think they are rational but they are not

c) gms don't care because it is not their money and year 8-10 of a contract will probably be some other GMs problem

 

c) is interesting. For the GM to have a 10 year job, years 4 and 5 need to be good so their incentive is to maximize years 3-5...

[z3r0s]

Is it not all a result of the structure of baseball free agency? This is the only age bracket where you can really improve by only spending money. So that is where the money is spent.

[Dick_Pole]

Neither over paid nor under paid. Its a business and they make what someone is willing to pay them based on the market and negotiated CBA terms. Nobody is forced to play baseball at any level. IÂ’d like to see minor leaguers make more and a lot of big leaguers get hurt or struggle and never see arb pay checks or free agency money, but thatÂ’s the system that was negotiated. Even the MLB min is a lot more than most people will ever make in a few years. Is the Lindor deal an overpay? 100%. But if an owner is willing to pay it then he is getting exactly what he should. Ultimately the limitation on payment will be driven by fans going to games and watching on TV, merch. Etc.

 

NDP guy making the most sense.

[BigCecil]

NDP guy making the most sense.

 

lol...amiright?

 

How goes bud? Haven't heard from the grumpy ol' sensible guy in awhile. Still counting the pennies in your TFSA and wearing your Doug Ford T shirt with a MAGA hat?

 

How about those Jays?

[Dick_Pole]

lol...amiright?

 

How goes bud? Haven't heard from the grumpy ol' sensible guy in awhile. Still counting the pennies in your TFSA and wearing your Doug Ford T shirt with a MAGA hat?

 

How about those Jays?

 

Been busy and profitable. I still hate Trudeau but I admit I don't make f*** all under CPC leadership and I do under Liberals (started out well in the early 2000's until 2007 too). My inconsistent posting stems from two forces:

 

1. Being busy

2. My insight and opinions are not valuable enough for me to bother making time to post a lot on here. The internet could do well if more people held this belief.

 

Yes Jays are awesome. I don't want to jinx anything by enforcing undue excitement. The hitters are solid but that pitching is a brittle house of cards and I don't want to be the one blowing on it lest it comes crumbling down. These baboons here already started a Manoah versus Pearson thread and you know it's going to turn out just like the Stroman versus Sanchez thread so RIP Manoah.

 

On a side note, maybe you feel spoiled like I do when it comes to pitching prospects. Back when I started being a fan from Stottlemyre through to Halladay, basically every pitching prospect worth a damn made some kind of significant impact. The only ones that busted were the ones the Jays traded lol. Lieter was the only really frustrating one. Since then it's been Stroman and a bunch of guys that maybe had one good year. Two for Romero. This team's ability to produce good pitchers has gone down the toilet and our future in the near term is 40-60% bullpen games.

[bones10]

I have some interesting off day topic discussions for the future if you're interested,

 

1) Should MLB have a Salary cap

2) Are baseball players Athletes, if so where do they rank amongst other major sports, if not why?.

3) What place do baseball "intangibles" have in the modern age (small ball, lineup construction, overall tactics, etc)

 

Sorry, not intending to derail this one.

[BigCecil]

Been busy and profitable. I still hate Trudeau but I admit I don't make f*** all under CPC leadership and I do under Liberals (started out well in the early 2000's until 2007 too). My inconsistent posting stems from two forces:

 

1. Being busy

2. My insight and opinions are not valuable enough for me to bother making time to post a lot on here. The internet could do well if more people held this belief.

 

Yes Jays are awesome. I don't want to jinx anything by enforcing undue excitement. The hitters are solid but that pitching is a brittle house of cards and I don't want to be the one blowing on it lest it comes crumbling down. These baboons here already started a Manoah versus Pearson thread and you know it's going to turn out just like the Stroman versus Sanchez thread so RIP Manoah.

 

On a side note, maybe you feel spoiled like I do when it comes to pitching prospects. Back when I started being a fan from Stottlemyre through to Halladay, basically every pitching prospect worth a damn made some kind of significant impact. The only ones that busted were the ones the Jays traded lol. Lieter was the only really frustrating one. Since then it's been Stroman and a bunch of guys that maybe had one good year. Two for Romero. This team's ability to produce good pitchers has gone down the toilet and our future in the near term is 40-60% bullpen games.

 

Good to hear from you. Glad you are making out well. I'm a Director have a junior gold mining company "Taurus Gold" going public next month so we are hoping to do well with that. Just invested in Providence Therapeutics here in Calgary. They have produced what many think is the worlds best covid vaccine, so we shall see. I know f*** all about it but my bud is Chair of the Board and just invested over a million in their convertible debenture. I am a sheep that follows smart people. Still private.

 

As far as the Jays agree with you. We are pitching above our weight. Injuries have not helped. Pen is over taxed and its already starting to crumble some. We need some luck on health and Atkins will have to acquire some help. You can only get so lucky in pouring through the bargain bin. Shame about Yates. That was an unusual pen signing for them, and one can see why.

 

I am nostalgic for our pitching development to be sure. But I'm not sure if thats fair. Leiter was great but just hurt too much early. He ended up being a big part of the 93 world series winning team. I will never forget him K'ing Darren Daulton in a huge spot coming out of the pen. I think game 1 when we beat Curt Schilling. Chris Carpenter was like Leiter. Hurt too much young. Took forever to develop. Romano fell off a cliff. Marcum we developed late. Morrow was a struggle. Cecil became a lights out reliever for a few years. 2015 he was incredible.

 

Aside from Doc though, I don't think we had a stellar record even back then. Steib Key Ward Woody Hentgen over a lot of years. Remember Billy Koch? Stottlemyre wasn't that good. Mid to back end guy. Never forget him starting that epic 15-14 game vs Phillies and getting rocked sliding into base and tearing skin off his chin. In the rain. All time great game.

 

I'm hopeful we make something substantial out of both Manoah and Pearson. Reminding me of the Stro/Sanchez/Thor debates on here makes me nauseous. We do have a penchant for writing guys off when they don't fit the exact mold. Its ironic some of our best ever bats were converted scrap heap projects at one time - JD, Edwin and Jose.

[TwistedLogic]

I have some interesting off day topic discussions for the future if you're interested,

 

1) Should MLB have a Salary cap

2) Are baseball players Athletes, if so where do they rank amongst other major sports, if not why?.

3) What place do baseball "intangibles" have in the modern age (small ball, lineup construction, overall tactics, etc)

 

Sorry, not intending to derail this one.

 

Great ideas and don't worry about derailing in off-day threads. These posts are mostly just to shoot the s*** on off-days with a topic there that people can discuss if they want.