Around Baseball 2021

[Spanky__99]

No different than changing the mound height. If anything I’d think a mound height change would throw them off even more.

 

Sure, then don't do it. Leave the mound as is, or find some other way.

[Spanky__99]

I've never pitched, but I was wondering this too. I feel like if you've been honing a breaking pitch for 15-20 years, it's not easy to just back it up by a foot. I could be 100% wrong though.

 

No man, you're right, it's just wrong. Injuries especially will fly through the roof. That would f*** them up bigly, imo.

[The Cats Ass]

No man, you're right, it's just wrong. Injuries especially will fly through the roof. That would f*** them up bigly, imo.

 

They’ve made bigger changes to the mound before. Moving it back 1ft is less intrusive than the 5” drop.

[Spanky__99]

They’ve made bigger changes to the mound before. Moving it back 1ft is less intrusive than the 5” drop.

 

The Bobby Gibson rule, I know. Sorry, disagree vehemently on this... I just said leave the mound alone then. 5" inches is nuts.

[BTS]

Carlos Rodon is perfect through 8.

[Thaddeus Malice]

The Bobby Gibson rule, I know. Sorry, disagree vehemently on this... I just said leave the mound alone then. 5" inches is nuts.

 

I mean I think it might have killed baseball if they didn't. The offense was horribly anemic right. I'm looking at this and wow, 10th place for OPS was .850.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1968-batting-leaders.shtml

 

Also damn you said leave it alone back then? 52 years ago. You've been around.

[Brownie19]

The Bobby Gibson rule, I know. Sorry, disagree vehemently on this... I just said leave the mound alone then. 5" inches is nuts.

 

what happened when they lowered the mounds before? perhaps nobody is old enough to really know - they also didn't document injuries as well back then.

[Spanky__99]

I mean I think it might have killed baseball if they didn't. The offense was horribly anemic right. I'm looking at this and wow, 10th place for OPS was .850.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1968-batting-leaders.shtml

 

Also damn you said leave it alone back then? 52 years ago. You've been around.

 

lol... I was 5 then.

[Jays24]

Carlos Rodon is perfect through 8.

 

That hit by pitch sucks man.

[Jays24]

No hitter is still sick but damn... so close to a perfect game.

[Spanky__99]

what happened with the lowered the mounds before? perhaps nobody is old enough to really know - they also didn't document injuries as well back then.

 

Yeah, I searched myself. The pitchers dominated back then, they were ridiculously high on WAR. And the mound was far too high, they had to do it. Guys still rake in this league, leave it alone.

[Brownie19]

What era do you guys think was best? I think baseball in the heart of the steroid era (late '90's early 00's) was the best. Guys were crushing home runs, but we also had guys stealing 50+ bases a year. Big time power guys were striking out in the low 20% range, with most others between 10% and 20%. Great pitchers were striking out 7 to 8 per 9 innings and you still had 25 starting pitchers with ERA's below 3.5.

 

Maybe it's nostalgia, but for me - that's the type of baseball I want to see.

 

I'm bumping this because I think this board should have a bigger discussion on it. I think we all agree the game needs to change. The current product is hard to watch. 25% strikeouts is insane. Every team has like 6 guys in the pen throwing 95+ and there are too many pitching changes.

 

What's the goal? I think everyone wants more BIP and more emphasis on defense and base running. What era of baseball are we aiming to replicate? After discussing it with a few friends, the correct answer might be the early 90's. Fewer home runs than the steroid era (where too many guys who shouldn't be hitting a ton of home runs were), fewer strikeouts, more base running, more defense - but still lots of offense.

 

I'm also worry I'm getting dangerously close to becoming the old guy who thinks the baseball he grew up watching was the best and just complains about anything that's different.

[Spanky__99]

No hitter is still sick but damn... so close to a perfect game.

 

Yeah, kind of sunk me a bit. Perfect games are so rare.

[Spanky__99]

 

I also worry I'm getting dangerously close to becoming the old guy who thinks the baseball he grew up watching was the best and just complains about anything that's different.

 

lol

[Brownie19]

I also wanted to ask the smrt people here. What's the reason for the change. I believe shifts are part of it, but the primary cause is the improvements in pitching isn't it?

 

My friends all seem to blame hitters for not having a 2 strike approach, or for not adjusting to hit the ball the other way (or bunt of course) - but when everyone is throwing 95+....the batters simply don't have that luxury. Hitters have to eliminate certain pitches and locations right? They'll say I'm looking for the ball away and if a pitcher throws it 95+ on the inside corner, they tip their hat. The pitchers simply have too much of an advantage now.

 

Amirite?

[Spanky__99]

Brantley GS would be sweet!

[Spanky__99]

I also wanted to ask the smrt people here. What's the reason for the change. I believe shifts are part of it, but the primary cause is the improvements in pitching isn't it?

 

My friends all seem to blame hitters for not having a 2 strike approach, or for not adjusting to hit the ball the other way (or bunt of course) - but when everyone is throwing 95+....the batters simply don't have that luxury. Hitters have to eliminate certain pitches and locations right? They'll say I'm looking for the ball away and if a pitcher throws it 95+ on the inside corner, they tip their hat. The pitchers simply have too much of an advantage now.

 

Amirite?

 

Yeah man, analytics is the reason, spin rates, movement etc... launch angle, exit velocity, OBP, etc... and defensive shift data.

[King]

Player development is a big reason. Pull up any random minor league team from a good player development org. like the Yankees and you'll have a team full of pitchers with no one who throws under 95. Pitching has just gotten really good. Add in the stuff mentioned above and that's how you get to where we are today.

 

Teams also value strikeouts more than they used to. Less and less pitch to contact pitchers these days.

[Abomination]

I don't see any reason why moving the mound back a few inches would cause more injuries to pitchers. In fact, it might give pitchers a fraction of a second longer to react when a screamer gets hit at them.

 

Really though, move the mound back and LOWER it slightly to counter the increased velocity. The lower mound height will also likely reduce injuries to pitchers. Reduce the seam height on the ball a tiny bit, deaden it a little, and allow pitchers to use an approved substance on their fingers for grip. Oh, and stop allowing teams to create short porches like in Yankee Stadium.

[BTS]

I'm bumping this because I think this board should have a bigger discussion on it. I think we all agree the game needs to change. The current product is hard to watch. 25% strikeouts is insane. Every team has like 6 guys in the pen throwing 95+ and there are too many pitching changes.

 

What's the goal? I think everyone wants more BIP and more emphasis on defense and base running. What era of baseball are we aiming to replicate? After discussing it with a few friends, the correct answer might be the early 90's. Fewer home runs than the steroid era (where too many guys who shouldn't be hitting a ton of home runs were), fewer strikeouts, more base running, more defense - but still lots of offense.

 

I'm also worry I'm getting dangerously close to becoming the old guy who thinks the baseball he grew up watching was the best and just complains about anything that's different.

 

Honestly, the heart of the steroid era was a fun game to watch. In 1998 you had juiced up freakhows hitting 70 homers and putting up crazy power numbers, but you also had about 1000 more total stolen bases than we currently have today, with 10 different guys stealing 40+ bags. There was a huge range of player types, ranging from Mark McGwire to Tony Gwynn and Eric Young, and everything in between.

 

You had the same variety in pitching: a few elite arms and gaudy K/9 rates of 10-12 (Big Unit, Schilling, Clemens etc...) but there were 10 or 20 guys who put up league average 175-225 IP seasons with fewer than 6 K/9. And complete games were still a thing.

 

I feel like we have a narrower distribution of player types now, as we've drifted towards most hitters being three true outcome power hitters, and very few pitchers trying to induce weak contact early in counts.

 

I just want to see a wider variety of skill sets doing a wider variety of things.

[Spanky__99]

LOL @ that strike call... robo umps will definitely bring down K% as Jim alluded too, just brutal.

[Deadpool]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2153783/mlb-to-test-new-dh-rule-moving-pitching-rubber-back-in-atlantic-league

 

MLB is testing new rules.

 

#1 - move the mound back a foot. Nobody likes seeing so many strikeouts.

#2 - double hook DH. Once you pull your starting pitcher, you lose your DH. Too many pitching changes during a game.

 

Apparently a 93.9 MPH fastball at 61 feet is equivalent to a 91.6 MPH fastball at 60 feet.

 

#2 is a direct attack on Chuckles. You expect him to figure out how to make TWO changes at once? Come on man, that's just not fair.

[Spanky__99]

Underrated annoyance: Fangraph's live update dashboard being broken.

 

MLB.com has live updates also now... fyi.

[Olerud363]

I was thinking about this and I think part of it is just a moneyball type optimization of hitter approach.

 

Here are a couple of seriously great teams. Great to watch and great hitting approach

 

1988 Red Sox

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1988.shtml

 

1993 Blue Jays

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/1993.shtml

 

Red Sox scored 813 runs, Blue Jays 847. Potentially both teams were a bit unlucky. Both had batting title contenders, low strike out rates, were super-fun to watch. They hit .280 as a team.

 

Any number of teams hitting .250 score 800-850 runs now The good teams score 950 runs. And they all strike out way more, slightly lower batting averages, but more walks and way more power.

 

I think they figured out

 

.250 .330 .480 is better then .280 .340 .420 -- High k, high power teams score more runs, thus that is the strategy teams will use.

[Krylian]

Ahhh...the '88 Sox with the Oil Can.

[Thaddeus Malice]

Honestly, the heart of the steroid era was a fun game to watch. In 1998 you had juiced up freakhows hitting 70 homers and putting up crazy power numbers, but you also had about 1000 more total stolen bases than we currently have today, with 10 different guys stealing 40+ bags. There was a huge range of player types, ranging from Mark McGwire to Tony Gwynn and Eric Young, and everything in between.

 

You had the same variety in pitching: a few elite arms and gaudy K/9 rates of 10-12 (Big Unit, Schilling, Clemens etc...) but there were 10 or 20 guys who put up league average 175-225 IP seasons with fewer than 6 K/9. And complete games were still a thing.

 

I feel like we have a narrower distribution of player types now, as we've drifted towards most hitters being three true outcome power hitters, and very few pitchers trying to induce weak contact early in counts.

 

I just want to see a wider variety of skill sets doing a wider variety of things.

 

100% agreed on this. That variety doesn't exist. It's not as amazing to watch a guy put up huge K numbers when everyone does it. And there was something impressive about guys like Beuhrle who could control a game without it. It was nice watching Estrada pull that off while he was good as well.

 

 

I really do think the double hook idea is good because it reemphasizes pitchers going deep into games. Watching a matchup between Roy Halladay and Beuhrle was awesome back in the day. Roy raised his K/9 later in his career but for the most part he struck out between 5-7/9 and was dominant anyways.

 

And no openers. Limits the specialization, and analytics focus a bit there. Pushing the mound back is a bit drastic, so that can be left for later if they really can't get a handle on things.

 

I also wonder if pitchers have to go deeper into games, that means they don't go all out as much. Would having to go 6+ innings more consistently mean velocity dips slightly?

[Jimcanuck]

Alex Rodriguez and Jennifer Lopez have broken up. Hoping to catch her on the rebound.

[Spanky__99]

Alex Rodriguez and Jennifer Lopez have broken up. Hoping to catch her on the rebound.

 

lol

[G-Snarls]

Twins need to f*** off and beat the Red Sox today

[G-Snarls]

I would never bet anything on the Mets or the Twins

 

Constant underperformance compared to expectations every year