General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[connorp]

Parenting a lot of times is based on your own idea of what a good dad is. To Laila we know how life shaped him, in my case I wish my dad encouraged sports at an earlier age and so I did. You can say it’s about you but it’s really just about your own idea of what a dad should do for his kid. There’s not a right or wrong way to parent, in this case anyway, but I can agree im not a fan of extreme cases/forcing them to do something they don’t want to

[Scion]

So to address if my kid likes it or this is a parent thing.

 

My kid loves playing baseball and being around his teammates and other kids. He is also very proud when he puts on his uniform, carries his own ball bag, gets a hit or makes a play in the field. He is bummed out when he doesn't, not from me, but his own internal expectations. If doing well makes him happy, there is nothing wrong IMO giving him better tools than I can provide to help him develop.

 

My kid also played Soccer a number of years, swimming, and was in martial arts (Ninja school) as he calls it until COVID hit.

 

My kid will go out in our back yard with his ball bag, set up the practice balls on the "mound" put on his helmet and say dad, come play with me. This will be at 3 pm in the afternoon when I am in the middle of work and only happen to be working from home due to COVID.

 

It is a Camp during winter break. They have Snowcone parties, this week Santa is coming to visit and next week they are doing some New Years Party. I am sure they will have base running competitions and stuff that my kid LOVES and he gets to be around a bunch of other kids instead of at home bored. Regardless if MLB guest players or coaches are there, it is a baseball Academy year round with professional staff in teaching to each age level. He will get out of the house, have fun and learn something (I hope).

 

I didn't want to continue playing baseball when I was in High school. I told my dad and he got pissed. He basically forced me continue. However, I am glad he did. I ended up having a lot of fun with my team, learning a lot, making new friends and being active. If it were left to me, I would have sat on the couch, watched movies and played Nintendo or Atari or whatever it was back then.

 

You are right about the cost and the time involved etc. I don't like the cost either and also think it is ridiculous. The positive thing about these travel teams is, the kids get to go to these towns ( a lot of times beach towns) in Florida, hang out in the hotel swimming pool, pizza parties at restaurants after games, basically a big sleep over in the hotel with all their buddies, go to the beach, play group mini-golf etc.. It is a blast for a kid to do all that..

 

I also thought the cost of books at University was an fnnnn scam and cost too much. I would buy a book for $100 bucks and then the next semester they would come out with 4th edition and Professors would require 4th edition and I could sell my book for $10 bucks and the 4th edition was two or three chapters switched around with a few new paragraphs added. Biggest fnnn costly BS scam that made it hard to pay for books and tuition. The system sucked, but I wasn't going to become all SJW and boycott University for my "principles". Nor am I going to do the same for my kids sports.

 

I have worked hard and been blessed with the opportunity to have my older son now, participate in this stuff and hopefully my 5 month old in a few years. Yes, I don't like the costs either, I realize there are intense parents, but it is what it is and not something I am taking a stand over as long as I see my kid having fun and that is the way the system works...

 

Hey man, no judgement from my end. I've never had a kid, and I won't pretend to know how to raise one. Good on you if your kid loves sports, I was a sports nut at a young age myself.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Scion

[Jimcanuck]

Sports and other outlets should be to keep kids out of trouble. A bored kid will be trouble. A parent that has hopes of their 5 yr old, or 10 yr old, or even 15 yr old becoming a professional is deluded.

 

My daughter does equestrian 3x a week, singing 1x, and piano 1x, plus daily singing / piano practice. She has wanted to quit piano a few times but we talked her out of it since she is so good and is enjoying it now.

 

So far so good. This pandemic needs to end soon though, its tough on kids, basically a lost year of the most critical time of their life.

[connorp]

Sports and other outlets should be to keep kids out of trouble. A bored kid will be trouble. A parent that has hopes of their 5 yr old, or 10 yr old, or even 15 yr old becoming a professional is deluded.

 

My daughter does equestrian 3x a week, singing 1x, and piano 1x, plus daily singing / piano practice. She has wanted to quit piano a few times but we talked her out of it since she is so good and is enjoying it now.

 

So far so good. This pandemic needs to end soon though, its tough on kids, basically a lost year of the most critical time of their life.

 

Yeah, that’s always been my angle from Day 1. It’s not dreams of my kid playing in Yankee stadium. By the time I got to 7th grade I was obsessed with being the most popular kid and being a huge douche bag. I failed some grades along the way and had to start out in community college my first year. I had matured by my senior year when I had to change schools but obviously was too late. I had friends along the way that I played on school teams with that were more dedicated and on travel teams and such so I was intent to steer my kid that way early to lessen chance of making my same mistakes

 

Worked out well

[Spanky99]

I thought it was obvious to everyone except I guess King, that the parts about getting the coaches drunk was sarcasm.. Hence the LOL to help.

 

The rest of it is absolutely true and I think 6 hrs of high level instruction for 4 days in a row for a 5 year old is worth it. He will either develop a good foundation and base at this age or bad habits, both of which will stay with him as he progresses. That and to keep him active over Christmas break are two good reasons for me to send him.

 

I was actually replying to the bad joke/sarcasm(Not sure about all that other ********...hope this helps), with sarcasm. 5 years old is pretty young and as I said, hopefully he enjoys it like I did. I see nothing wrong with sport camp. I always enjoyed them in both baseball and hockey.

[L54]

Why is it that when Queen acts like a little dweeby Fangraphs writer he always runs away?

[King]

I mean first and foremost, the objective of the camp has to be for the kids to have fun, enjoy baseball and make some friends. That said, baseball is a difficult sport for kids and learning the fundamentals (in a fun way) for younger kids (5 through 7) isn't insane. I've been coaching kids from about age 4 to age 10 now over the past 5 years and it's alarming how quickly they develop bad fundamentals and mechanics that become very difficult to correct. When coaching 8 and 9 year old kids, you spend most of practice trying to correct bad habits they developed when they were 5 through 7. And guess what - kids with bad fundamentals typically don't have success, which leads to less enjoyment and them ultimately quitting.

 

Do you need ex. professionals to do this? Obviously not, but I think that just adds to the fun part for kids. It can be special to know you're at a camp with guys who played or coached at the MLB level. If you want to argue it's nuts to spend that much on your 5 year old - be my guest, but if you have the extra cash and think your kid will have fun, I won't judge.

I was saying "no" to the part about getting coaches drunk being sarcasm/and or funny. Cool insight though.

[King]

Why is it that when Queen acts like a little dweeby Fangraphs writer he always runs away?

What are you on about? Sorry I don't check the message board 24/7 like you do.

[L54]

They have programs for teens also... Try one, it looks like fun!

 

*Pulls out radar gun*

 

67

[L54]

What are you on about? Sorry I don't check the message board 24/7 like you do.

 

Yes because I am here all day every day

[BTS]

*Pulls out radar gun*

 

67

 

I was throwing 58 mph HEAT at the batting cages back in January.

[Deadpool]

Parents should have enrolled the kid in Kevin Mench's "Dingers and Diapers" Camp. Only $100/day. Teaches the fundamentals like how to s*** in a f***ing toilet. If you don't drill those fundamentals early you'll have a pants-shitter forever.

 

Uhh, I thought that was a George Brett thing...

 

[Spanky99]

Uhh, I thought that was a George Brett thing...

 

 

Hah... I don't even have to open this to know what it is.

[The Iceman]

Would you rather...hypothetical only.

 

Give up Lourdes as the main piece in a trade. Thinking for Lindor or a Reds pitcher.

or Teoscar?

[connorp]

Would you rather...hypothetical only.

 

Give up Lourdes as the main piece in a trade. Thinking for Lindor or a Reds pitcher.

or Teoscar?

 

Try to stay on topic:)

[Jimcanuck]

Would you rather...hypothetical only.

 

Give up Lourdes as the main piece in a trade. Thinking for Lindor or a Reds pitcher.

or Teoscar?

 

Extra year of control with Gurriel. I'd rather move Teo.

[wilko]

Uhh, I thought that was a George Brett thing...

 

 

That's gold!

[Brownie19]

Interesting discussion on kids in sports. Lots of good points both ways. I'm a parent of 3 boys between age 5 and 10 and I help coach multiple teams in both hockey and baseball. I LOVE coaching kids (not just my kids). It's a passion for me and I clearly do get a lot out of youth sports myself. That said, I don't think there's a right answer as each situation is different. I have a couple of points to add:

 

1. I think sports provides a great opportunity for kids to learn about dedication, team work, responsibility, hard work, resiliency, etc. Unfortunately, in my experience, kids who play at the local league level rarely gain these through sport. There are little to no expectations or dedication. Lots of kids who don't really want to be there and even fewer who want to work hard. It never really feels like you're on a 'team'. If your kids like a sport and you can give then opportunities to improve and give them a better chance of making a rep/travel teams - I think it's worthwhile.

 

2. I think there are times when a little parent push is beneficial. I have 2 boys who love hockey and would hit the ice multiple times a day if they could. My 3rd often gives us a hard time about going to practices (especially during COVID as he misses games). If truly given the choice, he'd probably just sit on the couch and do nothing. But, when he puts up a fuss, we do have to push back a bit. Nearly 99% of the time, as soon as he gets out there, he's smiling and having a great time and leaves the arena happy. To be honest, I was a goalie as a kid and I hated practice and often gave my parents a hard time. They never let me quit and while I don't really like hockey, I have great memories of it, made life long friends and learned a lot of lessons that transcend the sport. Obviously there are plenty of occasions when parents unnecessarily/negatively push their kids into sports, but IMO, it's not always wrong.

 

I also agree with lots of the other good points made. The money angle and accessibility is a challenging, but real issue. Push too much or too early and you risk them losing the passion/interesting (push the right amount and they might develop great habits that are utilized throughout their youth). Have a kid who clearly loves it a young age, encourage them. There is no one answer fits all response to this discussion.

[RobinThicc]

5 definitely seems young to be teaching kids the fundamentals of the game because I dont think a 5 year old gives a s*** or even has the ability properly translate what they learned into a game situation. But maybe im underestimating how smart 5 years old are, I dont have kids.

 

But if the kid likes it and enjoys themselves, then im all for it.

[Carlos Danger]

Interesting discussion on kids in sports. Lots of good points both ways. I'm a parent of 3 boys between age 5 and 10 and I help coach multiple teams in both hockey and baseball. I LOVE coaching kids (not just my kids). It's a passion for me and I clearly do get a lot out of youth sports myself. That said, I don't think there's a right answer as each situation is different. I have a couple of points to add:

 

1. I think sports provides a great opportunity for kids to learn about dedication, team work, responsibility, hard work, resiliency, etc. Unfortunately, in my experience, kids who play at the local league level rarely gain these through sport. There are little to no expectations or dedication. Lots of kids who don't really want to be there and even fewer who want to work hard. It never really feels like you're on a 'team'. If your kids like a sport and you can give then opportunities to improve and give them a better chance of making a rep/travel teams - I think it's worthwhile.

 

2. I think there are times when a little parent push is beneficial. I have 2 boys who love hockey and would hit the ice multiple times a day if they could. My 3rd often gives us a hard time about going to practices (especially during COVID as he misses games). If truly given the choice, he'd probably just sit on the couch and do nothing. But, when he puts up a fuss, we do have to push back a bit. Nearly 99% of the time, as soon as he gets out there, he's smiling and having a great time and leaves the arena happy. To be honest, I was a goalie as a kid and I hated practice and often gave my parents a hard time. They never let me quit and while I don't really like hockey, I have great memories of it, made life long friends and learned a lot of lessons that transcend the sport. Obviously there are plenty of occasions when parents unnecessarily/negatively push their kids into sports, but IMO, it's not always wrong.

 

I also agree with lots of the other good points made. The money angle and accessibility is a challenging, but real issue. Push too much or too early and you risk them losing the passion/interesting (push the right amount and they might develop great habits that are utilized throughout their youth). Have a kid who clearly loves it a young age, encourage them. There is no one answer fits all response to this discussion.

 

This is a great post and spot on! Thanks for taking the time to lay it out so concisely.

[The Iceman]

Try to stay on topic:)

 

Like in the general Jays discussion thread LOL

[spats]

That's gold!

 

Who's the pitchers in this game? Priceless.

[Spanky99]

MLBTR... anyway you look at it now this was a pretty damn good trade...

 

Transaction Retrospection: Teoscar Hernandez Trade

By Anthony Franco | December 27, 2020 at 4:09pm CDT

 

Few players raised their stock more this past season than Teoscar Hernández. A competent but unspectacular hitter from 2018-19, Hernández had what looked like a breakout in 2020. Over 207 plate appearances, the Blue Jay outfielder hit .289/.340/.579 with 16 home runs. Along the way, he ranked in the 94th percentile or better in such Statcast metrics as average exit velocity, hard contact, expected weighted on-base average and barrel rate.

 

Hernández isn’t a flawless player. He’s a below-average defender. He has long had issues making contact, with a career 31.6% strikeout rate only marginally higher than last year’s 30.4%. Moving forward, the 28-year-old looks more like a solid regular than a star in the making. Regardless, Hernández is a valuable and important part of a Toronto roster coming off a berth in the expanded playoffs and looking on the verge of perennial postseason contention.

 

With that in mind, it’s worth looking back at the deal that landed Hernández with the Jays in the first place. Originally signed as an international amateur by the Astros, Hernández was flipped (alongside veteran outfielder Nori Aoki) to Toronto in advance of the 2017 trade deadline for left-hander Francisco Liriano. To that point, the veteran southpaw had posted just a 5.88 ERA as a starter for the Blue Jays. He had stifled opposing left-handed hitters, though, holding them to a .230/.254/.361 slash line.

 

The Houston front office thought a bullpen transition, where Liriano could be heavily leveraged against same-handed batters, could make him an asset. With George Springer, Josh Reddick, Derek Fisher and Jake Marisnick all on hand (and Kyle Tucker rapidly climbing the minor-league ladder), the Astros felt they could part with an MLB-ready outfield prospect to acquire a relief weapon. Unfortunately, Liriano continued to scuffle down the stretch, pitching to a 4.40 ERA with an 11:10 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 14.1 relief innings as an Astro.

 

Despite mediocre production from Liriano, the Astros went on to win the World Series. However one feels about the legitimacy of that title after subsequent revelations of Houston’s sign-stealing operation, the team probably wouldn’t undo any specific transaction related to the roster in retrospect. But from a pure value perspective, there’s no question Toronto came out ahead in the swap. Aoki barely played for the team, but Hernández looks to have emerged as a capable everyday performer as the Jays’ new contention window opens. He remains under club control through 2023.

 

[Laika]

Didn't see this pasted anywhere:

 

Pirates, Indians Showed Past Trade Interest In Alejandro Kirk

By Mark Polishuk | January 3, 2021 at 2:08pm CDT

 

Alejandro Kirk’s bat has drawn a lot of attention over his three pro seasons, including a 2020 MLB debut that saw the Blue Jays catcher post a .983 OPS over his first 25 plate appearances as a big leaguer. As one might expect, rival teams have taken notice of Kirk, with TSN’s Scott Mitchell reporting that the Pirates and Indians have both tried to acquire the catcher within the last 14 months.

 

Cleveland wanted Kirk in a potential Corey Kluber trade with the Jays last offseason, prior to the deal that saw Kluber sent to Texas for Delino DeShields Jr., Emmanuel Clase and the Rangers agreeing to absorb all of Kluber’s $17.5MM salary for the 2020 season. The Pirates’ interest was more recent, as Mitchell notes that the Bucs “tried to pry him away” from Toronto just this past summer.

 

The Blue Jays and Pirates were known to be in discussions over such pitchers as Trevor Williams, Chad Kuhl, and Joe Musgrove prior to the trade deadline, with a trade for Musgrove reportedly falling through at the veritable last minute. Since Pittsburgh GM Ben Cherington came to the job after working in Toronto’s front office, it isn’t surprising that the rebuilding Pirates and the aggressive Blue Jays are often mentioned as potential trade partners. Musgrove is still a hot commodity on the trade market, and with the Jays still looking to add pitching, a deal could certainly still come together between the two sides before the offseason is through.

 

Likewise, the past Cleveland ties of Jays president Mark Shapiro and GM Ross Atkins have seemingly put the Blue Jays in mind when discussing any potential Indians trade chip. To name one prominent example, Toronto has had interest in Francisco Lindor for well over a year, and Lindor still looms as a potential acquisition given the widespread expectation that the Tribe will deal the shortstop prior to Opening Day.

 

Whether Kirk could be part of a future deal to Cleveland or Pittsburgh remains in question, however. Mitchell believes the Jays will hang onto Kirk to see if he could be a reliable regular in 2021, both catching and as a DH against left-handed pitching. Danny Jansen is Toronto’s incumbent starter behind the plate, with Reese McGuire and prospects Gabriel Moreno and Riley Adams also on hand to give the Blue Jays quite a bit of major and minor league depth at the position — as Mitchell writes, one of the catchers “will be traded this year, it just won’t be Kirk.” Of course, should the Jays make the big splash to sign free agent target J.T. Realmuto, it would seem likely that multiple catchers (perhaps including Kirk) would be shopped.

[Ray]

Didn't see this pasted anywhere:

 

A Kirk for Kluber trade last year could’ve had a chance to be an all-time bad trade.

 

Indians going after catching is interesting though. I wonder if they’d be interested in Jansen as the core piece coming back in a Lindor trade. Would be less thrilled about giving up Kirk, but I wouldn’t be against it if Lindor comes with an extension.

[Grant77]

A Kirk for Kluber trade last year could’ve had a chance to be an all-time bad trade.

 

Indians going after catching is interesting though. I wonder if they’d be interested in Jansen as the core piece coming back in a Lindor trade. Would be less thrilled about giving up Kirk, but I wouldn’t be against it if Lindor comes with an extension.

 

Jansen has more value than Kirk to me because he's already a great defender. Kirk may hit more, but I wouldn't hate to deal him now if a team values him as a catcher.

[Carlos Danger]

A Kirk for Kluber trade last year could’ve had a chance to be an all-time bad trade.

 

Indians going after catching is interesting though. I wonder if they’d be interested in Jansen as the core piece coming back in a Lindor trade. Would be less thrilled about giving up Kirk, but I wouldn’t be against it if Lindor comes with an extension.

 

It was well known since before the trade deadline the Indians were going after catching and an OF. Hence, I thought the Jays were a good fit prior to the deadline and now.

 

Caveat is: I agree 100% a Kluber trade would have been horrible. I would want Plesac and for a little lower cost Civale..

[Ex Player]

Only 37 days

 

https://www.springtrainingcountdown.com/

[glory]

 

Not player related, but great news.

[z3r0s]

nice. I'm a Shapiro fan.