General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Jimcanuck]

So we're not spending a dime on pitching outside of Ray...lol.

 

Need at least one starter and two relievers. If the Jays get Lindor and Springer, I'm sure other moves will be made, either by trade or by sign.

[jaysguy44]

Who are the position players in the league you guys would say are better than Lindor right now?

[burlingtonbandit]

Why would you be "wary" of that?

 

He's an elite two-way player and possible future hall of famer. He's 27. The 3rd best position player in the league since 2015 when he broke in. If he's willing to go long with Toronto they should get it on paper that minute, before he changes his mind.

 

These aren't the type of players who even give Toronto a second thought most of the time.

 

It's not your money and Toronto has the payroll space.

 

xWOBA of .333 and .336 the last 2 seasons. He's been a fantastic player in his career but a lot of that value is in his defense which ages faster. Any contract 250M or more is a big gamble.

[glory]

Why would you be "wary" of that?

 

He's an elite two-way player and possible future hall of famer. He's 27. The 3rd best position player in the league since 2015 when he broke in. If he's willing to go long with Toronto they should get it on paper that minute, before he changes his mind.

 

These aren't the type of players who even give Toronto a second thought most of the time.

 

It's not your money and Toronto has the payroll space.

 

Expecting Lindor to be an elite players into his mid-30's seems pretty optimistic. Getting age 27-32 Lindor would be great, but then if there's still something like 5/150 or 6/180 left on his deal after that, then it becomes a much riskier proposition.

[Jays24]

To me this is the biggest revelation in the entire article. If the Jays are getting their young guys to recruit others, they have successfully bought into the team's propaganda. That greatly increases the chances of the team signing them to long term deals at good prices. Brilliant move by the FO.

 

Or its gonna hurt those players if they're eventually traded within the next year or or so to upgrade their spots lol.

[saskjayfan]

xWOBA of .333 and .336 the last 2 seasons. He's been a fantastic player in his career but a lot of that value is in his defense which ages faster. Any contract 250M or more is a big gamble.

 

I'm don't think he agrees to an extension prior to free agency for less than 300+ mil. I'd really rather target storey if we were going to go after a short stop. The cost to acquire would be far cheaper and the extension would be less dollars and years.

[Jays24]

Expecting Lindor to be an elite players into his mid-30's seems pretty optimistic. Getting age 27-32 Lindor would be great, but then if there's still something like 5/150 or 6/180 left on his deal after that, then it becomes a much riskier proposition.

 

Why the hell would he take that contract when hes better to just test free agency next year? Lindor is getting at least 300M extension for like 10 years.

 

The last few years might suck like most of these contracts do but thats the cost of doing business with an elite talent.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Jays24

[saskjayfan]

Need at least one starter and two relievers. If the Jays get Lindor and Springer, I'm sure other moves will be made, either by trade or by sign.

 

well if you sign Wong, trade for Lindor and sign Springer and then sign another starter and 2 relievers you're looking at a payroll of 175 to 180ish mil and Lindor's extension the next year would kick in and add 10 to15 mil although we will be rid of Roark. Seems a tad aggressive. It's not my money though. Spend away!

[glory]

xWOBA of .333 and .336 the last 2 seasons. He's been a fantastic player in his career but a lot of that value is in his defense which ages faster. Any contract 250M or more is a big gamble.

 

Agreed. It was mentioned that Lindor's been the 3rd best player in baseball based on WAR since he debuted, and that's true, but he has a 118 wRC+ over that span, where players around him in the top 10 are in the 130's and 140's. His value is largely dependent on defense and base running (and he's been a negative BsR the last two years), and I don't know if I'd trust those two things to age very well. Certainly not over another 10-12 years, or whatever it would take to extend him.

[Spanky99]

Who are the position players in the league you guys would say are better than Lindor right now?

 

Not many.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&type=steamer

[Jimcanuck]

well if you sign Wong, trade for Lindor and sign Springer and then sign another starter and 2 relievers you're looking at a payroll of 175 to 180ish mil and Lindor's extension the next year would kick in and add 10 to15 mil although we will be rid of Roark. Seems a tad aggressive. It's not my money though. Spend away!

 

Really? Jays payroll is currently $70M including Gurriel's $4M. Picking up Wong, Springer, Lindor would increase it to ~$125M. Still some room to spend on pitchers or trade prospects for current MLB pitchers in their arb years.

 

I doubt after picking up Lindor and Springer, Shatkins will waste the first few years of their service by fielding a s***** pitching staff.

[saskjayfan]

Really? Jays payroll is currently $70M including Gurriel's $4M. Picking up Wong, Springer, Lindor would increase it to ~$125M. Still some room to spend on pitchers or trade prospects for current MLB pitchers in their arb years.

 

I doubt after picking up Lindor and Springer, Shatkins will waste the first few years of their service by fielding a s***** pitching staff.

 

Player benefits are 15.5 mil and minor league salaries are roughly 2.5.

[Spanky99]

Player benefits are 15.5 mil and minor league salaries are roughly 2.5 plus tulo is still 4 mil.

 

That's sunk money, if the Birds actually went this route, it'll happen.

[saskjayfan]

That's sunk money, if the Birds actually went this route, it'll happen.

 

Yes, but do you think they will go to all time levels in salary following a year where they lost money?

[Deadpool]

If we got both Lindor (+ extension) and Springer, I have to think Wong is probably off the table...

[Spanky99]

If we got both Lindor (+ extension) and Springer, I have to think Wong is probably off the table...

 

For sure, they'd move on to arms. Tanaka or Odorizzi and Hand would be my guess, if it layed out that way, lol.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Spanky99

[Jimcanuck]

Player benefits are 15.5 mil and minor league salaries are roughly 2.5.

 

These costs are not typically included in big league roster player salary totals. And weren't included in the previous high of $140M of a few years ago.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/toronto-blue-jays/payroll/

[Spanky99]

Yes, but do you think they will go to all time levels in salary following a year where they lost money?

 

Likely, yes. They really only lost gate, other than most teams, we own our cable.

[saskjayfan]

These costs are not typically included in big league roster player salary totals. And weren't included in the previous high of $140M of a few years ago.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/toronto-blue-jays/payroll/

 

They are included now and they count against the luxury tax and they have gone up substantially over the last several years. Most of that 15.5 mil is pension liabilities. They were almost half that number in 2015.

[Jimcanuck]

Jays being owned by a large telecommunications giant / broadcaster has probably insured it to some extent against COVID cashflow impacts. If anything, telecommunications have grown in value during the pandemic.

 

As it looks like something like a full season is in the works for 2021, Rogers may well be willing to spend to improve the on-field and more importantly the TV product.

[Jimcanuck]

They are included now and they count against the luxury tax and they have gone up substantially over the last several years. Most of that 15.5 mil is pension liabilities. They were almost half that number in 2015.

 

So you agree after getting Lindor and Springer the Jays would still be a fair bit short of the 2016 payouts?

[saskjayfan]

Likely, yes. They really only lost gate, other than other teams.

 

I'm not sure what that actually means, but we had additional expenses in Buffalo and every team got their TV money. If you're expecting the Jays to add 80 to 90 mil from these levels, you might be disappointed. 40 to 50 mil is far more realistic.

[Spanky99]

Jays being owned by a large telecommunications giant / broadcaster has probably insured it to some extent against COVID cashflow impacts. If anything, telecommunications have grown in value during the pandemic.

 

As it looks like something like a full season is in the works for 2021, Rogers may well be willing to spend to improve the on-field and more importantly the TV product.

 

Obviously. I just mentioned that.

[saskjayfan]

So you agree after getting Lindor and Springer the Jays would still be a fair bit short of the 2016 payouts?

 

you said Lindor, Springer, Wong, another starter and 2 relievers! I think it's more likely we get one of Springer, JTR or Lindor(no Wong) and a starter and a reliever or 2.

[Jimcanuck]

Obviously. I just mentioned that.

 

I was typing when you responded. Not only do the Jays have low current salary commitments, the owners probably have not been hit as hard as other MLB owners. Jays are in a unique position.

[Spanky99]

I'm not sure what that actually means, but we had additional expenses in Buffalo and every team got their TV money. If you're expecting the Jays to add 80 to 90 mil from these levels, you might be disappointed. 40 to 50 mil is far more realistic.

 

I edited more to my post, anyhow, we'll see how it unfolds.

 

ETA: Money towards maintenance is not team budget.

[Jimcanuck]

you said Lindor, Springer, Wong, another starter and 2 relievers! I think it's more likely we get one of Springer, JTR or Lindor(no Wong) and a starter and a reliever or 2.

 

You didn't answer my question.

 

And I agree both Lindor and Springer is very unlikely.

[saskjayfan]

Obviously. I just mentioned that.

 

Rogers stock price is down 8% from pre pandemic levels. I love the enthusiasm and I think they will spend. Like you said we'll see how it plays out. I don't think the dream XMAS scenario plays out, but 40 to 50 mil might happen.

[Spanky99]

Rogers stock price is down 8% from pre pandemic levels. I love the enthusiasm and I think they will spend. Like you said we'll see how it plays out. I don't think the dream XMAS scenario plays out, but 40 to 50 mil might happen.

 

And that'd be great!

[jaysguy44]

I tend to not pay attention to fans on social media, but today for whatever reason I figured I'd give it a go.

 

 

There's actually a large portion of Jays fans that will be outraged if they Jays trade LGJ for Lindor(with an extention), straight up. Are all fan bases this dumb?