General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Ryu In My House]

Definitely makes you a dick, yes

 

Bwahahaha.

 

I hurt inside now.

[Brownie19]

Bwahahaha.

 

I hurt inside now.

 

He's right though. Athletic stories get posted here all the time by those with accounts.

[Ryu In My House]

He's right though. Athletic stories get posted here all the time by those with accounts.

 

I am not sure that makes it okay. But it is not my forum.

[max silver]

I am not sure that makes it okay. But it is not my forum.

 

I'm in the same boat as you, the idea of posting copyrighted paywall content makes me personally uncomfortable, but I certainly appreciate those that are willing to do so.

[connorp]

I'm in the same boat as you, the idea of posting copyrighted paywall content makes me personally uncomfortable, but I certainly appreciate those that are willing to do so.

 

Here is where Boxy is missed

[jays4life19]

https://theathletic.com/2035310/2020/08/31/one-eye-on-now-and-one-eye-on-the-future-blue-jays-gm-explains-deadline-moves/?amp#click=https://t.co/RsuegzzqMn

 

Can anyone post this please?

 

With their team in a playoff spot, the Blue Jays front office headed into this year’s trade deadline with a careful plan to make roster improvements. They had needs — starting pitching, infield reinforcements, a bench bat — and following Monday’s 4 p.m. ET deadline, they had addressed each of them, adding a pair of starters in Robbie Ray and Ross Stripling and versatile infielder Jonathan Villar before the clock expired.

 

But perhaps more crucially, the Blue Jays did the majority of their shopping via the rental market, buying pieces for modest prices, while not subtracting from their major-league roster or their collection of top-ranked prospects.

 

In essence, the front office was opportunistic in making their current team better, beefing up areas of need, while not seriously jeopardizing the club’s future. Because as much as a playoff appearance is beginning to seem likely this season for the Blue Jays, who still have a hold of the final American League playoff spot after Monday’s 4-3 loss to the Baltimore Orioles, a deep run may be less likely. The young squad could gain a lot of valuable experience from October baseball, hence making moves to improve their current roster, but the Blue Jays’ serious window of contention will surely open wider starting next season and beyond.

 

“We had two main goals,” Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins said on a Zoom call with reporters Monday evening. “One eye on now and one eye on the future and making sure we balance that. And we feel like we balance the future by not parting ways with our upper-echelon prospects and we balance the present by bolstering our major-league roster.”

 

And for now, the Blue Jays still have the payroll flexibility and prospect capital to spend at a later date, should a better opportunity to really go for a World Series run arise in the future.

 

“There were other things we could have done,” Atkins added. “It’s thinking about wanting that opportunity to continue for us, so it doesn’t mean just holding on to prospects, it means continuing to acquire and develop them, but we are confident that into this offseason and hopefully next deadline that we will have plenty of access to continue to acquire talent.”

 

In a sign that shows what a difference a year can make, the Blue Jays were among the busiest buyers during this deadline period. While no team was as active as the San Diego Padres over the last 48 hours, the Blue Jays made five separate deals over the last week.

 

Blue Jays 2020 trades

Daniel Vogelbach

Cash

Mariners

Taijuan Walker

PTBNL

Mariners

Robbie Ray

Travis Bergen

Diamondbacks

Jonathan Villar

PTBNL

Marlins

Ross Stripling

2 PTBNL

Dodgers

On Monday, the Blue Jays made three of those moves, acquiring Ray and cash from the Arizona Diamondbacks, Stripling from the Los Angeles Dodgers and Villar from the Miami Marlins.

 

Combine that haul with the earlier deals with the Seattle Mariners to pick up designated hitter Daniel Vogelbach and starter Taijuan Walker, and the Blue Jays have bolstered the depth of their battered rotation with three starters, gained a versatile infielder in Villar who can play shortstop while Bo Bichette continues to heal from a right knee sprain and added a low-risk bat in Vogelbach.

 

And in stark contrast to last year’s deadline selloff that was summed up in the unforgettable soundbite of turning “14 years of control into 42 years of control,” of all the players the Blue Jays acquired this year, only two are controllable: Vogelbach, who is in his pre-arbitration years, and Stripling, who is arbitration-eligible this winter. Walker, Ray and Villar, meanwhile, are free agents after the season.

 

As such, the trades only cost the Blue Jays one 40-man roster player, with lefty reliever Travis Bergen going to Arizona in the Ray deal. The remainder were completed with either cash or players to be named later, which is the workaround to the restrictions in place of trading players only from the 60-player pool this year. It was reported by The Athletic’s Jim Bowden that the Mariners will receive a top-30 prospect for Walker, while Marlins reporter Craig Mish reported outfielder Griffin Conine, who MLB Pipeline rates as the Blue Jays No. 16 prospect, is the player in the Villar deal.

 

All in all, it’s a tidy few days of work for the Blue Jays, who hope some of the low-cost moves equal a high reward.

 

The primary bounce-back candidate is Ray, who was an All-Star pitcher in 2017 but is off to a poor start this season. Through seven starts, the 28-year-old left-hander has a 7.84 ERA. More concerning, however, are his league-leading 31 walks in 31 innings pitched, along with 2.6 home runs per nine. Walks have been an ongoing issue for Ray, who has a career average of 4.2 walks per nine innings. But, on the bright side, he still can strike out batters at a high clip. In fact, he’s done so to 43 batters this year and sports an above average strikeout rate of 27.9 percent. Colleague Zach Buchanan pointed out that from 2017 through 2019, Ray struck out 32 percent of batters faced, a higher rate than all but four starters in baseball over the same span. Underlying numbers suggest his fastball, which sits 94 mph, has a high spin rate, too.

 

Ray, who is often tinkering with his delivery, is certainly a project for the Blue Jays coaching staff. While being respectful of the time and effort the Diamondbacks have invested in Ray, Atkins was “optimistic” that the Blue Jays could get Ray throwing more strikes.

 

“This is a guy that has been dominant and has electric stuff, so, he’s going to get people out, and if we can help him walk less people than we’re going to have something really special, but we’ll take it a day at a time,” the GM said.

 

In Stripling, the Blue Jays also pick up a pitcher who is in the midst of a down season. The 30-year-old right-hander has a 5.61 ERA in seven starts with the Dodgers this year. He’s also allowed a league-leading 12 home runs. Right-handed batters have done particular damage, hitting .338/.386/.677 against him. However, Stripling is also throwing harder this year than last, with his fastball up to nearly 92 mph after sitting 90.6 mph in 2019. Again, Atkins pointed to Stripling’s track record of success — he has a 3.68 career ERA over five seasons — as well as his ability to work as a starter or as a long reliever, which gives the Blue Jays pitching staff options.

 

“Ross Stripling’s been a guy who’s been very reliable, really good weapons, incredible secondary options and he’s throwing harder this year,” Atkins said. “He’s struggled a little bit against right-handed hitting so hopefully we can help him there.”

 

Atkins didn’t divulge the exact roles he saw for either pitcher, but with an open spot in Toronto’s rotation, presumably one of them will slot in there. Although with the potential for either Matt Shoemaker and/or Nate Pearson to return from injury this season, Stripling could move to the bullpen.

 

“Adding those arms that could stabilize us a bit from a starting point was important to us,” Atkins said of Ray and Stripling.

 

Manager Charlie Montoyo didn’t close the door on the chance Ray could start on Tuesday for the Blue Jays, who otherwise have a scheduled bullpen day against the Miami Marlins.

 

On the position player side, Villar gives the Blue Jays a speedy versatile infielder who offers a more potent bat than Joe Panik has been providing this season. In 30 games this season, Villar is hitting .259/.315/.345 with nine stolen bases. While Villar has experience playing all over the infield and some outfield, too, the most likely scenario is for him to slot in at shortstop while Bichette remains out. And when the 22-year-old Bichette returns, Villar can move around.

 

“The versatility was very attractive, the switch-hitting ability is attractive, the ability to steal a base is very attractive,” Atkins said. “Very exciting piece to think about adding to the current group and really exciting to think about how he complements Bo Bichette when he’s healthy as well.”

“You look at the Dodgers, they’ve never made the big splashy, huge (move), I mean, Mookie Betts is a great player, but it’s never all-in at one time,” Atkins said. “It’s a steady growth that they continue to build up their system. They continued to make their 40-man more efficient and obviously very effective. I think it’s important to be measured and there isn’t one juncture where, in our view, that you put all the cards on the table. For us it will be, hopefully, continuing to be able to build and have a system that continues to also be providing talent for us and not just trade pieces.

 

“That’s our goal, we’ll hope to continue to be measured. At the same time, it’s not without making really significant deals that mean very high prices, but it’s too hard to say on when exactly that time will be when those bigger deals occur.”

While none of the Blue Jays deadlines moves made a huge splash, they at least took care of some immediate concerns, while keeping one eye on the future of their franchise, which they hope is morphing into a consistent contender. Because, as much fun as a playoff appearance could be this year in this wacky shortened season, the overarching goal is for postseason games to be a yearly occurrence. In that way, they’re looking to emulate another pretty successful club, who have deployed the slow build strategy to great success.

[Dr. Dinger]

He's right though. Athletic stories get posted here all the time by those with accounts.

 

They probably get more memberships in the long run if the posted content is good. I would encourage anyone who isn’t poor to subscribe, it’s well worth the small cost.

[BlueRocky]

[Jonn]

Volgelbach’s tenure already over after what 4 or 5 at-bats lol?

 

Poor Hazel and Arash. Did so much research on him for stories lol.

[wilko]

They probably get more memberships in the long run if the posted content is good. I would encourage anyone who isn’t poor to subscribe, it’s well worth the small cost.

 

How are the Keith Law articles?

[wilko]

With their team in a playoff spot, the Blue Jays front office headed into this year’s trade deadline with a careful plan to make roster improvements. They had needs — starting pitching, infield reinforcements, a bench bat — and following Monday’s 4 p.m. ET deadline, they had addressed each of them, adding a pair of starters in Robbie Ray and Ross Stripling and versatile infielder Jonathan Villar before the clock expired.

 

But perhaps more crucially, the Blue Jays did the majority of their shopping via the rental market, buying pieces for modest prices, while not subtracting from their major-league roster or their collection of top-ranked prospects.

 

In essence, the front office was opportunistic in making their current team better, beefing up areas of need, while not seriously jeopardizing the club’s future. Because as much as a playoff appearance is beginning to seem likely this season for the Blue Jays, who still have a hold of the final American League playoff spot after Monday’s 4-3 loss to the Baltimore Orioles, a deep run may be less likely. The young squad could gain a lot of valuable experience from October baseball, hence making moves to improve their current roster, but the Blue Jays’ serious window of contention will surely open wider starting next season and beyond.

 

“We had two main goals,” Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins said on a Zoom call with reporters Monday evening. “One eye on now and one eye on the future and making sure we balance that. And we feel like we balance the future by not parting ways with our upper-echelon prospects and we balance the present by bolstering our major-league roster.”

 

And for now, the Blue Jays still have the payroll flexibility and prospect capital to spend at a later date, should a better opportunity to really go for a World Series run arise in the future.

 

“There were other things we could have done,” Atkins added. “It’s thinking about wanting that opportunity to continue for us, so it doesn’t mean just holding on to prospects, it means continuing to acquire and develop them, but we are confident that into this offseason and hopefully next deadline that we will have plenty of access to continue to acquire talent.”

 

In a sign that shows what a difference a year can make, the Blue Jays were among the busiest buyers during this deadline period. While no team was as active as the San Diego Padres over the last 48 hours, the Blue Jays made five separate deals over the last week.

 

Blue Jays 2020 trades

Daniel Vogelbach

Cash

Mariners

Taijuan Walker

PTBNL

Mariners

Robbie Ray

Travis Bergen

Diamondbacks

Jonathan Villar

PTBNL

Marlins

Ross Stripling

2 PTBNL

Dodgers

On Monday, the Blue Jays made three of those moves, acquiring Ray and cash from the Arizona Diamondbacks, Stripling from the Los Angeles Dodgers and Villar from the Miami Marlins.

 

Combine that haul with the earlier deals with the Seattle Mariners to pick up designated hitter Daniel Vogelbach and starter Taijuan Walker, and the Blue Jays have bolstered the depth of their battered rotation with three starters, gained a versatile infielder in Villar who can play shortstop while Bo Bichette continues to heal from a right knee sprain and added a low-risk bat in Vogelbach.

 

And in stark contrast to last year’s deadline selloff that was summed up in the unforgettable soundbite of turning “14 years of control into 42 years of control,” of all the players the Blue Jays acquired this year, only two are controllable: Vogelbach, who is in his pre-arbitration years, and Stripling, who is arbitration-eligible this winter. Walker, Ray and Villar, meanwhile, are free agents after the season.

 

As such, the trades only cost the Blue Jays one 40-man roster player, with lefty reliever Travis Bergen going to Arizona in the Ray deal. The remainder were completed with either cash or players to be named later, which is the workaround to the restrictions in place of trading players only from the 60-player pool this year. It was reported by The Athletic’s Jim Bowden that the Mariners will receive a top-30 prospect for Walker, while Marlins reporter Craig Mish reported outfielder Griffin Conine, who MLB Pipeline rates as the Blue Jays No. 16 prospect, is the player in the Villar deal.

 

All in all, it’s a tidy few days of work for the Blue Jays, who hope some of the low-cost moves equal a high reward.

 

The primary bounce-back candidate is Ray, who was an All-Star pitcher in 2017 but is off to a poor start this season. Through seven starts, the 28-year-old left-hander has a 7.84 ERA. More concerning, however, are his league-leading 31 walks in 31 innings pitched, along with 2.6 home runs per nine. Walks have been an ongoing issue for Ray, who has a career average of 4.2 walks per nine innings. But, on the bright side, he still can strike out batters at a high clip. In fact, he’s done so to 43 batters this year and sports an above average strikeout rate of 27.9 percent. Colleague Zach Buchanan pointed out that from 2017 through 2019, Ray struck out 32 percent of batters faced, a higher rate than all but four starters in baseball over the same span. Underlying numbers suggest his fastball, which sits 94 mph, has a high spin rate, too.

 

Ray, who is often tinkering with his delivery, is certainly a project for the Blue Jays coaching staff. While being respectful of the time and effort the Diamondbacks have invested in Ray, Atkins was “optimistic” that the Blue Jays could get Ray throwing more strikes.

 

“This is a guy that has been dominant and has electric stuff, so, he’s going to get people out, and if we can help him walk less people than we’re going to have something really special, but we’ll take it a day at a time,” the GM said.

 

In Stripling, the Blue Jays also pick up a pitcher who is in the midst of a down season. The 30-year-old right-hander has a 5.61 ERA in seven starts with the Dodgers this year. He’s also allowed a league-leading 12 home runs. Right-handed batters have done particular damage, hitting .338/.386/.677 against him. However, Stripling is also throwing harder this year than last, with his fastball up to nearly 92 mph after sitting 90.6 mph in 2019. Again, Atkins pointed to Stripling’s track record of success — he has a 3.68 career ERA over five seasons — as well as his ability to work as a starter or as a long reliever, which gives the Blue Jays pitching staff options.

 

“Ross Stripling’s been a guy who’s been very reliable, really good weapons, incredible secondary options and he’s throwing harder this year,” Atkins said. “He’s struggled a little bit against right-handed hitting so hopefully we can help him there.”

 

Atkins didn’t divulge the exact roles he saw for either pitcher, but with an open spot in Toronto’s rotation, presumably one of them will slot in there. Although with the potential for either Matt Shoemaker and/or Nate Pearson to return from injury this season, Stripling could move to the bullpen.

 

“Adding those arms that could stabilize us a bit from a starting point was important to us,” Atkins said of Ray and Stripling.

 

Manager Charlie Montoyo didn’t close the door on the chance Ray could start on Tuesday for the Blue Jays, who otherwise have a scheduled bullpen day against the Miami Marlins.

 

On the position player side, Villar gives the Blue Jays a speedy versatile infielder who offers a more potent bat than Joe Panik has been providing this season. In 30 games this season, Villar is hitting .259/.315/.345 with nine stolen bases. While Villar has experience playing all over the infield and some outfield, too, the most likely scenario is for him to slot in at shortstop while Bichette remains out. And when the 22-year-old Bichette returns, Villar can move around.

 

“The versatility was very attractive, the switch-hitting ability is attractive, the ability to steal a base is very attractive,” Atkins said. “Very exciting piece to think about adding to the current group and really exciting to think about how he complements Bo Bichette when he’s healthy as well.”

“You look at the Dodgers, they’ve never made the big splashy, huge (move), I mean, Mookie Betts is a great player, but it’s never all-in at one time,” Atkins said. “It’s a steady growth that they continue to build up their system. They continued to make their 40-man more efficient and obviously very effective. I think it’s important to be measured and there isn’t one juncture where, in our view, that you put all the cards on the table. For us it will be, hopefully, continuing to be able to build and have a system that continues to also be providing talent for us and not just trade pieces.

 

“That’s our goal, we’ll hope to continue to be measured. At the same time, it’s not without making really significant deals that mean very high prices, but it’s too hard to say on when exactly that time will be when those bigger deals occur.”

While none of the Blue Jays deadlines moves made a huge splash, they at least took care of some immediate concerns, while keeping one eye on the future of their franchise, which they hope is morphing into a consistent contender. Because, as much fun as a playoff appearance could be this year in this wacky shortened season, the overarching goal is for postseason games to be a yearly occurrence. In that way, they’re looking to emulate another pretty successful club, who have deployed the slow build strategy to great success.

 

Ross out here looking like this:

 

[Laika]

I would like to just say that during his time with the Toronto Blue Jays I found Daniel Vogelbach to be revolting.

[Captain Adama]

RHP Sam Gaviglio & INFs Brandon Drury & Daniel Vogelbach DFA

 

[glory]

Villar playing SS and batting 3rd tonight.

[Jonn]

If I was Stripling I would super pissed if he ends up pitching out of the bullpen. He should the guy that takes that open rotation spot no questions asked. The fact that the article even mentioned that annoys me. He didn’t come here to pitch long relief for the Blue Jays. He could have done that with the Dodgers.

[Laika]

If I was Stripling I would super pissed if he ends up pitching out of the bullpen. He should the guy that takes that open rotation spot no questions asked. The fact that the article even mentioned that annoys me. He didn’t come here to pitch long relief for the Blue Jays. He could have done that with the Dodgers.

 

Apparently Robbie Ray is following Merryweather tonight. Piggy-back.

 

I think it makes sense to piggy-back those two. Merryweather will not be stretched out this year and Ray can try to find his mechanics without having to go too many innings. You also get the RHP to LHP dynamic.

 

Roark is by far their worst SP option. It would be s***** to see him continue to start games after Pearson comes back and for someone like Stripling to be in the pen.

[glory]

If I was Stripling I would super pissed if he ends up pitching out of the bullpen. He should the guy that takes that open rotation spot no questions asked. The fact that the article even mentioned that annoys me. He didn’t come here to pitch long relief for the Blue Jays. He could have done that with the Dodgers.

 

Apparently, he will start one of the double header games on Friday.

 

Ray following Merryweather tonight.

 

Not sure what that means about either pitcher's role for the rest of the season. My guess is Stripling is more likely to be in the rotation than Ray.

[Jonn]

Apparently Robbie Ray is following Merryweather tonight. Piggy-back.

 

I think it makes sense to piggy-back those two. Merryweather will not be stretched out this year and Ray can try to find his mechanics without having to go too many innings. You also get the RHP to LHP dynamic.

 

Roark is by far their worst SP option. It would be s***** to see him continue to start games after Pearson comes back and for someone like Stripling to be in the pen.

 

Roark might continue to start games just because of the $12 million he makes next season and that sucks. His leash in his outings should be atleast short now that we legit have some quality multi inning options.

[Sammy225]

Apparently Robbie Ray is following Merryweather tonight. Piggy-back.

 

I think it makes sense to piggy-back those two. Merryweather will not be stretched out this year and Ray can try to find his mechanics without having to go too many innings. You also get the RHP to LHP dynamic.

 

Roark is by far their worst SP option. It would be s***** to see him continue to start games after Pearson comes back and for someone like Stripling to be in the pen.

 

I don't see where Rourke steps into the rotation thought.

 

Ryu

Stripling

Andersen

Robbie Ray

Walker

(In no particular order)

 

I can't see them doing a 6 man rotation. I would think the next time he comes around Ray will be starting and not piggy backing or am i delusional in thinking that.

[wilko]

 

The crew were all but sucking Vogelbach's dick on yesterday's broadcast. Apparently daddy Bichette loves his power. I guess they seen enough in 4AB's lol

[Jonn]

Probably an excellent chance Vogelbach makes it to Rochester. They can try to fif him there.

[wilko]

Probably an excellent chance Vogelbach makes it to Rochester. They can try to fif him there.

 

Reclamation project.

[M.E.]

I don't see where Rourke steps into the rotation thought.

 

Ryu

Stripling

Andersen

Robbie Ray

Walker

(In no particular order)

 

I can't see them doing a 6 man rotation. I would think the next time he comes around Ray will be starting and not piggy backing or am i delusional in thinking that.

 

They are playing a bunch of DH's this season is why they can go 6 deep. Add that they get very few days off

[z3r0s]

I don't see where Rourke steps into the rotation thought.

 

Ryu

Stripling

Andersen

Robbie Ray

Walker

(In no particular order)

 

I can't see them doing a 6 man rotation. I would think the next time he comes around Ray will be starting and not piggy backing or am i delusional in thinking that.

 

God damn that rotation looks a lot better than it did not so long ago.

[Ex Player]

Merryweather has yet to give up a run in 7.1 innings.

 

He has 12 K's

[Perfect Game]

Shapiro on the podcast at the 10 minute mark talking trade deadline, rule changes etc.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/starkville-with-jayson-stark-and-doug-glanville/id1479151019#episodeGuid=e2b2d2af-d396-46fd-918b-74d1b3abf842

[Dr. Dinger]

Merryweather has yet to give up a run in 7.1 innings.

 

He has 12 K's

 

I’m enjoying the fun while it lasts; Merryweather won’t throw 100 IP in his entire career.

[Laika]

The recent close losses really sting.

 

Even though Toronto's playoff odds will still be listed at 60%+, Fangraphs now projects them to finish the season at an even 30-30 and the Tigers to finish at 29-31. That's soooo little wiggle room. Over a full 162 game season their projected final winning percentages would lead to 82 and 77 win totals respectively, so a lot more breathing room. Tigers have also called a bunch of useful youngsters up so it's not like they are trash.

 

The last WC spot is basically a two team race.

[Olerud363]

The recent close losses really sting.

 

Even though Toronto's playoff odds will still be listed at 60%+, Fangraphs now projects them to finish the season at an even 30-30 and the Tigers to finish at 29-31. That's soooo little wiggle room. Over a full 162 game season their projected final winning percentages would lead to 82 and 77 win totals respectively, so a lot more breathing room. Tigers have also called a bunch of useful youngsters up so it's not like they are trash.

 

The last WC spot is basically a two team race.

 

Well the two 2-out walk offs down 1 run are even more critical. If the Grichuk flyball is 5 sheet shorter and the Hernandez Ground ball a few feet in either direction, Jays are behind the Tigers and Orioles and not projected for playoffs.

[Olerud363]

The recent close losses really sting.

 

Even though Toronto's playoff odds will still be listed at 60%+, Fangraphs now projects them to finish the season at an even 30-30 and the Tigers to finish at 29-31. That's soooo little wiggle room. Over a full 162 game season their projected final winning percentages would lead to 82 and 77 win totals respectively, so a lot more breathing room. Tigers have also called a bunch of useful youngsters up so it's not like they are trash.

 

The last WC spot is basically a two team race.

 

Your point is taken though takes 160 games for the luck to even out, Jays could just miss a playoff spot to Tigers or even Orioles with just some unlucky breaks...

 

A 162 game season with 85 wins, full year of development for the youngsters, full year of minor league stats, and some "win the next 3 year" deadline trades would of been awesome.