2020 HOF Votes

[saskjayfan]

Whoever it is, my condolences when his name is released.

 

I doubt it ever will be released.

 

Here's a ballot. The question is right at the bottom.

 

https://twitter.com/markkiszla/status/1219775017547755521/photo/1

[Boxcar]

I doubt it ever will be released.

 

Here's a ballot. The question is right at the bottom.

 

https://twitter.com/markkiszla/status/1219775017547755521/photo/1

 

Pretty amazing that we are hunting for one guy that didn't vote for Jeter when 65% of voters didn't vote for a better player in Scott Rolen.

 

Anyone who voted for Vizquel also needs to lose their privileges.

[Orgfiller]

I laugh that people are on a witch hunt for the one person who didn't vote for a guy that is in the Hall (and probably middle of the pack among those that are there)...yet no outrage that the greatest pitcher and greatest hitter in baseball history remain out.

 

I was going to say the same thing. Boo hoo Jeter wasn't unanimous, f*** him he's not even the best shortstop to play for the Yankees in the last 20 years. Two of the greatest players the sport has ever seen are barely scraping 60%.

[TheHurl]

Pretty amazing that we are hunting for one guy that didn't vote for Jeter when 65% of voters didn't vote for a better player in Scott Rolen.

 

Anyone who voted for Vizquel also needs to lose their privileges.

 

I love what Vizquel was and he belongs in the hall of really good. But Scott Rolen is probably just one tier below Vizquel on the defensive side of things and about 30 tiers above with the bat.

[TheHurl]

I was going to say the same thing. Boo hoo Jeter wasn't unanimous, f*** him he's not even the best shortstop to play for the Yankees in the last 20 years. Two of the greatest players the sport has ever seen are barely scraping 60%.

 

I do think Jeter deserves to be there. And I think no one should take 10 ballots to get in. It is such a ******** system that somehow this person that works as a reporter in the industry needs 10 years to figure out if Walker is worthy of their vote. Even the one person who didn't vote for Jeter did so because they don't feel he deserves to be in that special spot of unanimous. Al of it devalues the hall. I say we start up our own.

[Orgfiller]

I love what Vizquel was and he belongs in the hall of really good. But Scott Rolen is probably just one tier below Vizquel on the defensive side of things and about 30 tiers above with the bat.

 

And then there's Andruw Jones who was probably better on both sides than Vizquel.

[saskjayfan]

Pretty amazing that we are hunting for one guy that didn't vote for Jeter when 65% of voters didn't vote for a better player in Scott Rolen.

 

Anyone who voted for Vizquel also needs to lose their privileges.

 

 

I could personally care less. Jeter was a hall of famer for sure. There were plenty of better players in the Hall who never got unanimous votes.

 

It'a amazing how many writers voted Visquel and not Walker. Longevity clearly was important to these voters.

 

Hall of fame weekend should be fun. Derek Jeter the first ballot no doubt Hall of Famer and Larry Walker who was clearly the more talented ball player who just couldn't stay healthy and just squeaked in.

Edited January 22, 2020 by saskjayfan

[TheHurl]

 

Dressing up for the occasion.

[saskjayfan]

So here's the guy who didn't vote Jeter. Now that's a ballot!

 

https://twitter.com/TerryGreenbeans/status/1219800579830112262/photo/1

[Spanky__99]

So here's the guy who didn't vote Jeter. Now that's a ballot!

 

https://twitter.com/TerryGreenbeans/status/1219800579830112262/photo/1

 

That's photoshopped, he's trolling, nor does he have a vote, lol.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1696716/yankees-fans-want-my-head-sliced-off-and-jammed-on-a-stake-game-of-thrones-style

[saskjayfan]

That's photoshopped, he's trolling, lol.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1696716/yankees-fans-want-my-head-sliced-off-and-jammed-on-a-stake-game-of-thrones-style

 

yeah got that after the fact...but it wouldn't shock me if someone from barstool sports actually put out a ballot like this just to get publicity...lol.

[Beans]

yeah got that after the fact...but it wouldn't shock me if someone from barstool sports actually put out a ballot like this just to get publicity...lol.

It would shock me if anyone from Barstool Sports actually had a HOF vote.

[43211234]

So I noticed that Curt Schilling's RA9-WAR was actually slightly higher than his fWAR, despite his career ERA being 0.23 runs worse than his career FIP: https://www.fangraphs.com/players/curt-schilling/73/stats?position=P#value

 

That seemed very odd so I looked at the differential between his career RA and ERA. I guess this anomaly is due to him having only a 0.18 difference between his total run and earned run averages?

 

For comparisons sake Roger Clemens has a 0.33 differential, Pedro Martinez a 0.27 and Randy Johnson had a whopping 0.44 higher RA than ERA. Greg Maddux's was 0.40

 

Is there another reason that Schilling's RA9-WAR would be a touch better despite a rather significantly worse ERA than FIP?

[43211234]

Randy Johnson: 3.19 FIP, 3.71 RA

 

Roger Clemens: 3.09 FIP, 3.45 RA

[Boxcar]

That's photoshopped, he's trolling, nor does he have a vote, lol.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1696716/yankees-fans-want-my-head-sliced-off-and-jammed-on-a-stake-game-of-thrones-style

 

God I love Barstool. It's like Deadspin but funny.

[Bobthe4th]

The most disappointing thing is that Bonds only got an extra 1% increase this year. There are just too many voters that will never tick that box for him to get in.

[Jimcanuck]

The most disappointing thing is that Bonds only got an extra 1% increase this year. There are just too many voters that will never tick that box for him to get in.

 

I expect he and Clemens will get in eventually

 

Some other guys linked to PEDs that maybe deserve to get in won't sniff it

[saskjayfan]

I expect he and Clemens will get in eventually

 

Some other guys linked to PEDs that maybe deserve to get in won't sniff it

 

if bonds and clemens don't make it in the next 2 years, the committee will not put them in. They should be in, but I'm not so sure they will.

[Brownie19]

I expect he and Clemens will get in eventually

 

Some other guys linked to PEDs that maybe deserve to get in won't sniff it

 

Like Manny? His career was fairly comparable to Frank Thomas, yet he gets no respect.

[Orgfiller]

So I noticed that Curt Schilling's RA9-WAR was actually slightly higher than his fWAR, despite his career ERA being 0.23 runs worse than his career FIP: https://www.fangraphs.com/players/curt-schilling/73/stats?position=P#value

 

That seemed very odd so I looked at the differential between his career RA and ERA. I guess this anomaly is due to him having only a 0.18 difference between his total run and earned run averages?

 

For comparisons sake Roger Clemens has a 0.33 differential, Pedro Martinez a 0.27 and Randy Johnson had a whopping 0.44 higher RA than ERA. Greg Maddux's was 0.40

 

Is there another reason that Schilling's RA9-WAR would be a touch better despite a rather significantly worse ERA than FIP?

 

My guess is it would have to do when his best/worst seasons with respect to RA-9/FIP came from relative to league average?

 

For instance in 98-99, at the height of the steroid era, he had a 3.25 ERA in '98 and a 3.54 ERA in '99, with FIPs of 2.77 and 4.07 respectively. That averages out to a 3.42 FIP for those two seasons, and a 3.40 ERA (presumedly slightly higher RA), yet the RA9-WAR is 12.3 and the fWAR is 11.6.

 

You have enough of those tiny differences between enough seasons and since WAR isn't exact to the decimal place, you end up with a career fWAR of 79.8 and 81.0 RA9-WAR.

 

Edit: for further reference, league average ERA/FIP was 4.43 in 1998 and 4.71 in 1999.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Orgfiller

[Bobthe4th]

if bonds and clemens don't make it in the next 2 years, the committee will not put them in. They should be in, but I'm not so sure they will.

 

Yeah at this point expecting them to get in is idiotic, there’s a very real chance neither does. They are just too controversial unfortunately.

[Laika]

I do think Jeter deserves to be there. And I think no one should take 10 ballots to get in. It is such a ******** system that somehow this person that works as a reporter in the industry needs 10 years to figure out if Walker is worthy of their vote. Even the one person who didn't vote for Jeter did so because they don't feel he deserves to be in that special spot of unanimous. Al of it devalues the hall. I say we start up our own.

 

The 10 year system has some merit because perceptions of player value and hall worthiness can change so much over time.

 

I would like to see the stupid Veterans Committee changed. Just make it a secondary ballot for BBWAA members to keep things simple and congruent. The "Veterans Committee" can put forth the list of nominees for the secondary ballot and the writers vote on whether or not to let them in. The current committee process opens itself up to some silly inductions. I'd just like the writers to be able to consider players who have fallen off the ballot once it has been another ~10 years of whatever. Guys like Stieb and Lofton.

 

Did everyone know that if Mike Trout dies before the 2020 season he would not be eligible for the hall of fame? "The player must have competed in ten seasons." Trouty is only at nine. Same qualification for the Veterans Committee. The Commissioner would have to appoint a special Trout committee or something like that.

[Brownie19]

The 10 year system has some merit because perceptions of player value and hall worthiness can change so much over time.

 

I would like to see the stupid Veterans Committee changed. Just make it a secondary ballot for BBWAA members to keep things simple and congruent. The "Veterans Committee" can put forth the list of nominees for the secondary ballot and the writers vote on whether or not to let them in. The current committee process opens itself up to some silly inductions. I'd just like the writers to be able to consider players who have fallen off the ballot once it has been another ~10 years of whatever. Guys like Stieb and Lofton.

 

Did everyone know that if Mike Trout dies before the 2020 season he would not be eligible for the hall of fame? "The player must have competed in ten seasons." Trouty is only at nine. Same qualification for the Veterans Committee. The Commissioner would have to appoint a special Trout committee or something like that.

 

I'd agree with this. Walker is a good case for keeping the 10 year system. A lot has changed over the last 10 years in terms of our knowledge of baseball statistics and even the older crowd is at least starting to acknowledge they exist and are relevant, which changed a lot of views on a player like Walker. Also, a lot of the stubborn boomers who didn't got too old and stopped voting - paving the way for new perspectives and views to be heard.

 

The Veterans Committee should have been shut down the second they elected Harold Baines into the HOF.

[TheHurl]

my issue with the 10 year system is not the process of it, it is the arrogance of the writers. It took 9 years to "convince" 68% of the writers that Walker deserves to be in the hall. These people are supposed to have expertise. Instead it is their chance to be in the spotlight. Completely the opposite of what a Hall of Fame is supposed to be. Rotate the writers. Or create rules where if someone gets in that you didn't vote for, you lose voting rights for a year.

 

Or of course we could just disband the BBWAA as they are just a useless. Maybe throw them a bone and let them choose the Spink award winner.

[Laika]

my issue with the 10 year system is not the process of it, it is the arrogance of the writers. It took 9 years to "convince" 68% of the writers that Walker deserves to be in the hall. These people are supposed to have expertise. Instead it is their chance to be in the spotlight. Completely the opposite of what a Hall of Fame is supposed to be. Rotate the writers. Or create rules where if someone gets in that you didn't vote for, you lose voting rights for a year.

 

Or of course we could just disband the BBWAA as they are just a useless. Maybe throw them a bone and let them choose the Spink award winner.

 

Yeah that's all problematic and I'm not sure how to fix it.

 

It needs to be a long process to account for changes in perception over time. But if it's a drawn out process writers will do petty stuff like make people wait until they are about to fall off the ballot.

[KevinGregg]

 

Or of course we could just disband the BBWAA as they are just a useless. Maybe throw them a bone and let them choose the Spink award winner.

 

YES!!! Let the players vote on big awards like MVP, Cy Young, and Hall of Fame. If anyone knows who's good or not, it's the players. That's probably what they said about the writers way back in the day but they have proved they don't have a clue

[Laika]

YES!!! Let the players vote on big awards like MVP, Cy Young, and Hall of Fame. If anyone knows who's good or not, it's the players. That's probably what they said about the writers way back in the day but they have proved they don't have a clue

 

That would probably be even worse.

 

Maybe the people who decide which baseball players are the best should be the people whose actual jobs are to evaluate baseball player contributions to winning - executives, front office employees and analysts, and maybe scouts.

[TheHurl]

YES!!! Let the players vote on big awards like MVP, Cy Young, and Hall of Fame. If anyone knows who's good or not, it's the players. That's probably what they said about the writers way back in the day but they have proved they don't have a clue

 

Players are how the Harold Baines of the world get in.

[Dick_Pole]

Other than the BBWAA, it's difficult to find an outside source of a significant size of people who should have a high knowledge of baseball that has reasonable turnover with time. Outside source being key. The fault of letting the players choose has already been noted. I'm not so sure front office employees are the way either. They would probably find a way to develop a computer model that maximizes arbitration outcomes in their favour based on who they vote for.

 

It might not be too popular of an opinion, but in general I think the BBWAA has done a decent job in choosing players for as long as I can remember. It's only since the steroid issue has voting come off the rails. And things like social media being used by the voters to gain attention and stroke their egos. But would either of those things end up differently if another group voted?

 

Outside of the players immersed in the steroid scandal, the biggest controversies have been Walker, Raines and Blyleven, all of them correctly voted in at the last moment according to the consensus of the "smart" stat nerds. Morris who was correctly left off. Schilling and Vizquel where based on vote totals now it's looking pretty good for the former and not too good for the latter. And then some random writer gives a pity vote to someone like Adam Dunn knowing full well he's not going to get in which gets some people's panties in a knot.

 

But as a strict yes/no narrative, I think it's been fine. My biggest complaint was Lofton falling off immediately but he probably doesn't get in anyways if he is considered just a shade lower than Raines.

[FrozenRopes]

Guys that vote for Omar Vizquel to get into the hall of fame should have their votes removed. This is a guy with a career WAR of only 42.5, and he only produced an above average WRC+ twice in a very lengthy career. Sure he was flashy with the glove, but you would hope it would take more than that to gain entry into such a historically difficult hall of fame to get voted into.

 

It's called baseball, not defenceball. Omar does not get in...