Dave Stieb...The most underappreciated pitcher in MLB history?

[Maico450]

With todays HOF voting, and the corresponding commentary about Roy Halladay getting in on the 1st ballot, it brought back my memories of Dave Stieb.

 

My 1st thoughts were, was Halladay a better pitcher than Stieb? Having watched both pitchers through their Jays careers my initial thoughts were NO.

However looking back on the career stats I changed my opinion, they were close. Halladays success in Philly gave him a slight edge.

 

Then I got looking at CY awards, Halladay 2, Stieb 0. The closest Stieb came was a 4th place in 1982. Pete Vuckovitch won that year, despite Stiebs better numbers in virtually every statistical category...https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/1982_American_League_Cy_Young_Award

In 1984 Stieb was 7th. That was Willie Hernandez sensational year on the WS winning Tigers, and he won the CY award as a reliever, with Bert Blylevin coming in 3rd as top SP...https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/1984_American_League_Cy_Young_Award Stieb matched Blylevin in most stat categories, except Blylevin received 45 CYA points, to Stiebs 1.

 

In 1985 Stieb was 8th. https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/1985_American_League_Cy_Young_Award Brett Saberhagen won it with 127 points, to Stiebs total of 2 points, even though Stieb matched or beat Saberhagen in several statistical categories IP, ERA,SO, and shutouts.

 

Using WAR, Halladay has an advantage, 65 war to Stiebs 56, a definite Plus, again his Philly time helped out +17 War.

Doc was a great pitcher, but Stieb was pretty close, but never got the recognition.

His personality was never appreciated by the sportscasters. This cost him in both CY voting, and HOF eligibility.

[Boxcar]

I'd probably go with Kevin Brown

[Terminator]

I'd probably go with Kevin Brown

 

That's a pretty good call. The guy should be in the Hall easy but no one ever talks about him.

[Spanky99]

I don't know about history, lol. I believe he's very underrated, I actually give Stieb the slight edge over Doc. That could be the euphoria cause I was young when he pitched.

[Orgfiller]

I don't know about history, lol. I believe he's very underrated, I actually give Stieb the slight edge over Doc. That could be the euphoria cause I was young when he pitched.

 

That's gonna be a no from me dawg.

[Spanky99]

That's gonna be a no from me dawg.

 

That's fine.

[43211234]

I'd probably go with Kevin Brown

 

Definitely the biggest sufferer of Boring Name Syndrome in the history of the sport.

[Dick_Pole]

David Wells should be up there as well. Playoff hero. Not quite hall worthy but I was surprised he was jettisoned from the ballot as quickly as he was.

[Abomination]

Wells would be up there. I think some guys like Buehrle are vastly under appreciated as well. Jamie Moyer too, who somehow managed to junk ball his way to almost 50 career WAR and 4000 innings. Not really hall worthy, but definitely deserves more appreciation.

[Key22]

A lot of things to look at but Halladay was the best pitcher over the time he pitched and he did it mostly for a bloody AWFUL baseball team. Stieb was on one of the best teams in the league. There was a Stieb versus Jack Morris comparison done on the net a long while back that made a very good case that Stieb was the better pitcher - so if Jack is in Stieb should be in. But the HoF isn't exactly great at all this stuff. I'm not sure how Larkin gets dumped in the first year but Mike Mussina makes the hall. I have not looked too closely but apparently Mussina scores out similar to David Wells. Mussina I always perceived as a number 2. A very good number 2 but he never won a Cy Young either. Still Mussina did it for longer - Steib basically had 8 good years. If he could have maybe 3 more solid seasons of his good years he'd be in. He would have probably hit the 70+ WAR.

 

But if Halladay been on those good Yankee teams instead of the JP dreadful years - it would have been interesting.

[Maico450]

The early Jays could score some runs, but the bullpens were horrendous. One of the reasons that Stieb pitched so many innings was that a tired Stieb was still better than any pitcher in the pen. One year Gillick decided to fix the pen and signed Gary Lavelle and Bill Caudill. Lavelle was OK as a middle reliever, Caudill threw gas on the fire.

We went a lot of years with a bare cupboard until Gillick acquired Henke.

[TheHurl]

The early Jays could score some runs, but the bullpens were horrendous. One of the reasons that Stieb pitched so many innings was that a tired Stieb was still better than any pitcher in the pen. One year Gillick decided to fix the pen and signed Gary Lavelle and Bill Caudill. Lavelle was OK as a middle reliever, Caudill threw gas on the fire.

We went a lot of years with a bare cupboard until Gillick acquired Henke.

 

In his career Stieb's 4th time through were pretty much the same as his 1st time through. It's just a different time where guys like Stieb would not bring gas in the first 4 with the assumption he's going 8.

[Deadpool]

But if Halladay been on those good Yankee teams..

 

You shut your filthy whore mouth.

[Spanky99]

You shut your filthy whore mouth.

 

lol

[The Iceman]

In his career Stieb's 4th time through were pretty much the same as his 1st time through. It's just a different time where guys like Stieb would not bring gas in the first 4 with the assumption he's going 8.

 

288 innings and 19 CGs one season...nasty.

 

Jays teams were horrible when Steib first joined the team.

67-95

16-42

Turning point when the team hired Bobby Cox and he taught the young team how to win.

[Dick_Pole]

Jays teams were horrible when Steib first joined the team.

.

 

You know I always hear this narrative about Stieb that he played on horrible teams. He played half a season on the 1979 team and a strike shortened 1981 team. So basically 3+ seasons on bad teams and 1982 wasn't that bad and 8+ seasons on good to excellent teams (counting 1991 and 1992 as "+"). Halladay was on consistently mediocre teams AND he was in a tough division during schedule imbalance.

[Dick_Pole]

Not to crap on Stieb too much because he was a great pitcher, but I'm looking at his very meh 1986 and 1987 seasons and him s***ing the bed those years cost the team at least one playoff run. If the Jays were to ever make the playoffs in the 2000's, it would be because of Halladay.

[Agk47]

Here’s a fun one,

 

Who’s more underrated, Stieb or mcgriff?

[Boxcar]

Here’s a fun one,

 

Who’s more underrated, Stieb or mcgriff?

 

By Jays fans? McGriff by a landslide