OT: Refs/Umps have the most control in which sport?

[Terminator]

I took this from Eno Sarris who posed the question. I added hockey for this audience. What do you guys think?

[Boxcar]

Either football or basketball. Voted basketball because the calls seem much more arbitrary and they generally don't use replay.

[Terminator]

 

Sarris broke it down pretty well. I kind of agree with you though Boxy. The foul calls in basketball seem more all over the map and they happen nearly every play.

[z3r0s]

yeah I'd agree with basketball or football. There really seems to be a foul or penalty you could call on almost every play and probably be within the rules. I voted football because any individual flag can be such a game changer (see last night).

[Grant77]

I took this from Eno Sarris who posed the question. I added hockey for this audience. What do you guys think?

 

Very interesting question. For me it is baseball due to the home plate umpire. They have influence on every single pitch and there seems to be no consistency from game to game.

 

We can often make surprisingly accurate predictions about the size of the size of the strike zone and score of the game before it even starts, based solely on the umpire. I've never noticed that kind of predictability in other sports.

 

I can say pretty confidently that it is not hockey. Refs have a bad habit of evening out calls and put the whistles at crucial points.

[Abomination]

I'd say football due to the magnitude of the calls, followed by basketball due to the pace and volume of them. Soccer would follow, due to all the flopping.

[Jimcanuck]

Very interesting question. For me it is baseball due to the home plate umpire. They have influence on every single pitch and there seems to be no consistency from game to game.

 

We can often make surprisingly accurate predictions about the size of the size of the strike zone and score of the game before it even starts, based solely on the umpire. I've never noticed that kind of predictability in other sports.

 

I can say pretty confidently that it is not hockey. Refs have a bad habit of evening out calls and put the whistles at crucial points.

 

Disagree, repeatability of umpire calls in MLB is far better than other sports.

[Laika]

Baseball has the most umpire influenced events, but the biases of the umps tend to affect both teams equally. They both get the uniquely big/small strike zone. And replay has removed the blown call aspect from baseball, well most of it.

 

I would say it’s basketball. Refs could call a foul on most possessions, so there are a lot of ref influenced events. You also see the refs favour certain players or teams in an obvious way. Football might be similar but I don’t watch it much.

 

I don’t think soccer refs blow enough calls for them to have the most significance, even if giving a player a penalty kick is an immense decision. And for large sections of the game they really just run around and call obvious little things.

 

Agree with grant seventy seven that hockey is not close.

[Brownie19]

I drove 2.5 hours in a snow storm to Halliburton to watch the zebra show yesterday (instead of a watching 8 year olds play hockey). Good times. I generally despise officials/referees in all sports.

 

I voted football. Like bball, there could be a call in every play, but in football, the consequences are more influential.

[King]

PSA: Don't be that guy giving the refs s*** at an 8 year olds hockey game.

[Deadpool]

I don't think that, overall, baseball is the "winner" in this category, but it's the only one where the physical area of play is altered depending on who is umpiring. Blue line is always the blue line in hockey, the keyhole is always the keyhole in basketball. The strikezone is whatever Joe f***ing West decides it is that day.

[KevinGregg]

I don't think that, overall, baseball is the "winner" in this category, but it's the only one where the physical area of play is altered depending on who is umpiring. Blue line is always the blue line in hockey, the keyhole is always the keyhole in basketball. The strikezone is whatever Joe f***ing West decides it is that day.

 

not true, this ref (the black dude, #73) just expanded the dimensions of the court by like 10% in order for KD to be in bounds on this play. Durant looks up at him right after like, "really?"

[Deadpool]

not true, this ref (the black dude, #73) just expanded the dimensions of the court by like 10% in order for KD to be in bounds on this play. Durant looks up at him right after like, "really?"

 

No, you missed my point, that was a ref making a stupid and bad call, but the lines were the same. Nothing the ref did changed the boundaries of the court. Umps change the boundaries of the strike zone on a day by day and pitch by pitch basis. It exists only in their minds.

[Jimcanuck]

the difference between baseball and the other sports is baseball umpiring is consistent, in-game. sure from game to game the strike zone will fluctuate, but it affects each team equally.

 

the other sports, a particular transgression gets called one minute and not the next, and so on throughout the whole game

 

in football receivers and d-backs jostling each other for several plays, then a foul gets called for something no different than has happened several times already. same thing in basketball, hockey, soccer

[Boxcar]

No, you missed my point, that was a ref making a stupid and bad call, but the lines were the same. Nothing the ref did changed the boundaries of the court. Umps change the boundaries of the strike zone on a day by day and pitch by pitch basis. It exists only in their minds.

 

No, I think that's correct. The strike zone boundary is always the same, just the interpretation that's different. It was a fair analogy.

[Deadpool]

No, I think that's correct. The strike zone boundary is always the same, just the interpretation that's different. It was a fair analogy.

 

I guess to me it's different because it's not a defined boundary, with lines you can see... Right? Like the ref at a basbetball game can't say "I feel the free throw line is 3" closer to the basket" and change the physical location of the free throw line, but an ump for a baseball game can say "I feel the strike zone is 3" to the left" and that makes it so. The strike zone is, by nature of the umps, arbitrary, while the position of lines on a rink or court are not.

[Grant77]

I guess to me it's different because it's not a defined boundary, with lines you can see... Right? Like the ref at a basbetball game can't say "I feel the free throw line is 3" closer to the basket" and change the physical location of the free throw line, but an ump for a baseball game can say "I feel the strike zone is 3" to the left" and that makes it so. The strike zone is, by nature of the umps, arbitrary, while the position of lines on a rink or court are not.

 

We see 30+ runs separate the best framing catchers from the worst. Catcher framing, while a skill, is essentially the umpire screwing up. That's just a small snapshot of how much they can influence a game consistently in favour of one team and against another.

[Brownie19]

PSA: Don't be that guy giving the refs s*** at an 8 year olds hockey game.

 

Who said I gave them s***? I just said they were s***. We're talking one ref calling off side while standing on the opposite blue line - overruling his fellow ref who's properly positioned on the offensive zone blue line (and doesn't call it). It became clear the ref was pissed that our team's coaches questioned his calls early on, which pissed him off and he went into the typical referee power rage. What type of power thirty **** takes over a novice hockey game?

 

What's the age have to do with it? 8 year olds, 10 year olds, 12 year olds - all these kids work their tails off all year. It's playoffs - they don't deserve it. PSA - don't be s*** at your job (these are grown men, not teenagers).

 

- damn it's hard to not have that come off as sour grapes.

[Boxcar]

Who said I gave them s***? I just said they were s***. We're talking one ref calling off side while standing on the opposite blue line - overruling his fellow ref who's properly positioned on the offensive zone blue line (and doesn't call it). It became clear the ref was pissed that our team's coaches questioned his calls early on, which pissed him off and he went into the typical referee power rage. What type of power thirty **** takes over a novice hockey game?

 

What's the age have to do with it? 8 year olds, 10 year olds, 12 year olds - all these kids work their tails off all year. It's playoffs - they don't deserve it. PSA - don't be s*** at your job (these are grown men, not teenagers).

 

- damn it's hard to not have that come off as sour grapes.

 

Have you considered that it's a meaningless game and that your kid isn't headed to the NHL? Try to relax and hopefully don't jump on the ice and start bearing the s*** out of people.

[Abomination]

Have you considered that it's a meaningless game and that your kid isn't headed to the NHL? Try to relax and hopefully don't jump on the ice and start bearing the s*** out of people.

 

That's a terrible attitude to have about it. Kids sports are supposed to be about fair play, among other things. The lessons it teaches them are not meaningless. Having a ref trying to throw a game, especially in the playoffs because they feel like being asses has no place in that venue (or any other).

[King]

Who said I gave them s***? I just said they were s***. We're talking one ref calling off side while standing on the opposite blue line - overruling his fellow ref who's properly positioned on the offensive zone blue line (and doesn't call it). It became clear the ref was pissed that our team's coaches questioned his calls early on, which pissed him off and he went into the typical referee power rage. What type of power thirty **** takes over a novice hockey game?

 

What's the age have to do with it? 8 year olds, 10 year olds, 12 year olds - all these kids work their tails off all year. It's playoffs - they don't deserve it. PSA - don't be s*** at your job (these are grown men, not teenagers).

 

- damn it's hard to not have that come off as sour grapes.

Lol @ getting this mad over an offside call in an 8 year olds hockey game.

[King]

That's a terrible attitude to have about it. Kids sports are supposed to be about fair play, among other things. The lessons it teaches them are not meaningless. Having a ref trying to throw a game, especially in the playoffs because they feel like being asses has no place in that venue (or any other).

I highly doubt the ref was trying to throw the game. Hockey parents are f***ing nutjobs.

[Abomination]

I highly doubt the ref was trying to throw the game. Hockey parents are f***ing nutjobs.

 

I was more responding to the part about who cares about the calls, the game is meaningless because it's kids. That's just a ridiculous position to take. I have no idea if the call was right or not, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's an accurate description of the events.

[King]

I was more responding to the part about who cares about the calls, the game is meaningless because it's kids. That's just a ridiculous position to take. I have no idea if the call was right or not, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's an accurate description of the events.

It would surprise me if it's an accurate description of events, lol. His post sounds completely biased. My favourite part was when he said that the ref was "pissed off" that the coach "questioned his calls early on". Aka, the coach was being a ******** from the beginning of the game because that's the only reason the ref would be pissed off about it. Typical raging hockey dads who think their kid is going to the NHL. Seen it way too many times.

 

I agree fair play is important but mistakes do happen, especially at the novice level where you have almost certainly less experienced refs (doesn't matter if they are grown men or not).

[Boxcar]

That's a terrible attitude to have about it. Kids sports are supposed to be about fair play, among other things. The lessons it teaches them are not meaningless. Having a ref trying to throw a game, especially in the playoffs because they feel like being asses has no place in that venue (or any other).

 

Well, in that case, Brownie should have leapt on to the ice to deliver swift justice via his fists to those refs who were ruining childrens' lives by not being NHL caliber and probably just doing it for fun/a little bit of extra money.

[Brownie19]

Have you considered that it's a meaningless game and that your kid isn't headed to the NHL? Try to relax and hopefully don't jump on the ice and start bearing the s*** out of people.

 

Lol @ getting this mad over an offside call in an 8 year olds hockey game.

 

You 2 every get mad and/or question an official/ref/ump during a professional game? Or do you believe that's laughable too?

[Boxcar]

You 2 every get mad and/or question an official/ref/ump during a professional game? Or do you believe that's laughable too?

 

Totally analogous, because 8 year olds are the same as pro athletes

[M.E.]

I voted soccer. Since it really is only 1 ref on the field with any control and matches can turn on his whims.

 

Every other sport has multiple referees/umps that can affect the game.

[Dick_Pole]

Basketball and it's not even close...also fascinating debate over the last few posts mostly because both sides are making good points.

[Terminator]

One thing to consider with football is that the games are more low scoring than basketball. So some blown foul calls in basketball is likely only to affect a team's score by a smallish percentage of their overall score. You can basically negate a few blown calls by making a couple of extra 3 pointers. It kind of takes a total officiating breakdown over the course of the game against one team to REALLY make a big difference.

 

In football, calling PI or not on a deep pass is almost the equivalent of giving a team X amount of points. Where X = the average number of points scored on a drive that features a gain of Y amount of yards. Just an example but giving a team the equivalent of 3 points with a PI in football is a huge deal. There is a lot of parity in the NFL too and the games are usually really close each week. A 2 TD win in the playoffs is almost considered a solid beatdown. A couple of calls can really change the game.

 

I still think it's basketball but football is close. The arguments for baseball and soccer are good too. Especially in soccer, one guy can give a PK which is like giving someone 80% of a goal. When the games are usually 2-1 that could be the difference.