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Offseason Roster Thread 2017-18

BTS

By BTS
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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glory Vancouver Canadians

glory

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I don’t think this team is going to be very good next year.

 

It looks that way. I could see them hovering around .500 but it’s going to take a hell of an off season to put them at a higher level than that. Just have to hope the club is internally bracing itself for a Donaldson trade rather than placating a fanbase that will run away the first sign of struggling anyway.

Krylian MVP

Krylian

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It looks that way. I could see them hovering around .500 but it’s going to take a hell of an off season to put them at a higher level than that. Just have to hope the club is internally bracing itself for a Donaldson trade rather than placating a fanbase that will run away the first sign of struggling anyway.

 

.500 is the worst thing that can happen. Mediocre teams are paralyzed to commit to change. A bomb of a season needs to happen so there's no doubt what they need to do.

jays_fever FCL Blue Jays

jays_fever

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
So Fangraphs readers believe that a team run by the people who built Cleveland is a below-average FO.

 

Fangraphs has become pretty mainstream. They only see it as the FO who is responsible for having the Jays finish last this year

Brownie19 New Hampshire Fisher Cats

Brownie19

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It looks that way. I could see them hovering around .500 but it’s going to take a hell of an off season to put them at a higher level than that. Just have to hope the club is internally bracing itself for a Donaldson trade rather than placating a fanbase that will run away the first sign of struggling anyway.

 

Shouldn't that fanbase already be running? We sucked last year and likely will this year.

P2F Toronto Blue Jays

P2F

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
So Fangraphs readers believe that a team run by the people who built Cleveland is a below-average FO.

 

Evidently, yes. It pains me to know just how uninformed the fan base really is, especially those fans that have all the required info at their disposal to make an informed decision (aka Fangraphs types).

glory Vancouver Canadians

glory

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Shouldn't that fanbase already be running? We sucked last year and likely will this year.

 

They can probably sell hope as long as they have JD. But if they have a 2018 similar to 2017, then I would expect a sizable dip in attendance regardless of what direction they go for 2019.

Orgfiller All-Star

Orgfiller

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
So Fangraphs readers believe that a team run by the people who built Cleveland is a below-average FO.

 

It's funny, Cleveland's front office is rated as excellent and meanwhile the front office that literally constructed that team is rated average or below. You can see how much influence last season's standings had on the voting results, fans are very biased.

Captain Adama FCL Blue Jays

Captain Adama

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
So Fangraphs readers believe that a team run by the people who built Cleveland is a below-average FO.

 

Well, theyasked readers about their favourite teams FO. The Jays fanbase has a huge online presence. Most Jays fans I've dealt still seem generally stupid.

Captain Adama FCL Blue Jays

Captain Adama

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It's not like we got CLE's entire front office. All we got was Shapiro who stopped being GM in 2010. And Atkins was in player development. So there are a f*** ton of people still in CLE who probably had a lot to do with that team's success.

 

I think our new FO got ranked lower than we'd think because of the Morales signing. To a lesser extent probably the Bautista one too. Both moves just seemed like the last thing a CLE front office would do. More like an Orioles style off-season.

 

Those 2 signings ultimately don't hurt us long-term but they're in people's minds. And they haven't made any splash trades either. So people will just have to wait until Teoscar, Diaz, Gurriel, etc. put up 3 WAR seasons and then their approval rating will be much higher. Basically the blue print of Shapiro's last endeavour. Just collect assets for eternity and eventually you will have enough.

 

But Shapiro was president and I'd imagine still presided over many of the personnel and transaction decisions. Also many of the FO staff he hired worked for the Indians when they acquired their core.

Terminator All-Star

Terminator

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Well, theyasked readers about their favourite teams FO. The Jays fanbase has a huge online presence. Most Jays fans I've dealt still seem generally stupid.

 

Most Jays fans are dumb as hell, I agree. But what about Jays fans who also read Fangraphs? They should be a little bit smarter.

 

I like Shatkins. I think they generally want player development to be the way the team finds sustained success and I think it's the right plan. The problem is n owner and fanbase might not always have the patience for that. They already aren't very popular. What happens when they purposely half-ass another offseason and the team is never really in contention again? Add in a new owner and I could see them losing their jobs. They might not have the time necessary to do this slow build up that seems to be their plan.

Captain Adama FCL Blue Jays

Captain Adama

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Most Jays fans are dumb as hell, I agree. But what about Jays fans who also read Fangraphs? They should be a little bit smarter.

 

I like Shatkins. I think they generally want player development to be the way the team finds sustained success and I think it's the right plan. The problem is n owner and fanbase might not always have the patience for that. They already aren't very popular. What happens when they purposely half-ass another offseason and the team is never really in contention again? Add in a new owner and I could see them losing their jobs. They might not have the time necessary to do this slow build up that seems to be their plan.

 

The problem with Shatkins is that they're taking over from a GM whom was incompatible with them. But in the eyes of most Jays fans, the years of mediocrity thru AA's tenure are forgoften because he took them to the playoffs for the

first time in a generation. So Shatkins is seen as a usurper and many Jays fans and I'd include fangraphs readers here too, want the success to continue, but don't understand that the team wasn't built to last. The Jays FO is in a f***Y position where they don't know what to do and it doesn't look great on them. Plus, I wouldn't consider the Jays fanbase on fangraphs to be that much more intelligent than the average Jays fan.

Captain Adama FCL Blue Jays

Captain Adama

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Shapiro interview (article) with Gideon Turk about the former's relationship with the media:

 

http://toronto.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2017/12/07/digital-media-and-a-baseball-team-an-interview-with-mark-shapiro/

 

I love this quote:

 

Look, in Cleveland, we hired guys from media. You guys are passionate about the game of baseball. You’re thinking about it in an in-depth way. There’s potential to learn from talking to you, I think, as well as reading [the work of online media]. I’m less likely to learn something from a traditional media that has to report on something in a very limited amount of space, with a narrative. I am just as likely to learn something from talking to them off the record, because of the amount of baseball they see, and the games they cover, [but] it’s just less likely than through what they write.”

 

Shapiro always does fantastic interviews like this. I keep liking him more and more.

bones10 Dunedin Blue Jays

bones10

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Can anyone justify keeping Donaldson at this point? This is the Yankees and Redsox division for the immediate future no need to get our senseless pride in the way lets get some prospects before the year starts.
burlingtonbandit New Hampshire Fisher Cats

burlingtonbandit

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Can anyone justify keeping Donaldson at this point? This is the Yankees and Redsox division for the immediate future no need to get our senseless pride in the way lets get some prospects before the year starts.

 

Well you could justify it if the trade offers aren't worth it but given how the Cardinals really seem to want him it doesn't make much sense.

Orgfiller All-Star

Orgfiller

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

Having Harrison and Aledmys Diaz as depth would be fantastic, since they'd basically become starters by May. I imagine even in the rare scenario where Tulo and Travis are healthy at the same time for more than two weeks, both would be getting some playing time providing at least average production.

Daniel Labude Toronto Blue Jays

Daniel Labude

Jays Centre Contributor
Posted
Posted
I may have been on board with this before the Diaz trade. No need to spend 10 million + prospect(s) for Harrison now. The Jays have bigger needs.

 

I agree. Seems too redundant at this point ubless someone else could be on the move

Orgfiller All-Star

Orgfiller

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I agree. Seems too redundant at this point ubless someone else could be on the move

 

Ryan Goins and Darwin Barney combined for 821 PA over 272 games last season. Tulowitzki and Travis combined for... 457 PA over 116 games. To me this isn't at all an indication that someone from the infield is out the door, but rather trying to make massive improvements to our backup plans when our projected starters inevitably go down like they always do. And since Aledmys and Harrison aren't glove-only players, they actually provide more as bench players and could get the occasional start.

Terminator All-Star

Terminator

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

MLB Starters= Tulo and Travis

MLB Bench= Harrison and Diaz (let's face it these two probably get more playing time than the two listed above them)

AAA Starters/Depth= Gourriel, Urena and Gift

 

I'm just eyeballing those guys compared to Goins and Barney last year and that would be a huge improvement. Maybe up to a 5 WAR improvement?

Daniel Labude Toronto Blue Jays

Daniel Labude

Jays Centre Contributor
Posted
Posted
Ryan Goins and Darwin Barney combined for 821 PA over 272 games last season. Tulowitzki and Travis combined for... 457 PA over 116 games. To me this isn't at all an indication that someone from the infield is out the door, but rather trying to make massive improvements to our backup plans when our projected starters inevitably go down like they always do. And since Aledmys and Harrison aren't glove-only players, they actually provide more as bench players and could get the occasional start.

 

Having them would be great...not at the price it will take to get Harrison though. Your paying the price for a starting infielder to play him as a backup (at least initially), which is not what we need to be doing if we want to compete at all next season

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