Trade Josh Donaldson?

[vdubmvp]

The line is "what is your major malfunction" not primary.

[burlingtonbandit]

I would say "for Toronto it's all about perception of what the team will be" 2013 sold as many season tickets as 2015 did. If there is no direction for the future, the attendance will fall next year. Last place this year with moves that the fans see as positive (something likely not to happen from this front office as fans usually love the worst of the free agent signings) and the fans buy in the off season.

 

As for trading Donaldson I don't see that now is the time unless you are blown away and I'm not sure what team would do that. If the Jays are still struggling at the deadline, I see this as the priority of trades.

 

1. Estrada (should return a Young pitcher...if the Rangers aren't selling should be one of the most interesting rentals available)

2. Goins (should have been a National already...we will take nothing, something, anything. This is just a present for me at this point.

3. Osuna (not a priority but could provide the most return, I don't think he's essential to next year success)

4. Bautista (he wasn't appealing to many in the off-season so how does the current version draw enough in trade to make it worth while to trade him...and how the f*** does a career 130 wRC+ vs. LHP have a 42 wRC+ through 83 PA's this year). Again I don't think the return is there.

 

Yeah that is true for season tickets but the $ is in the walk up sales. A season ticket in the 100 Level is worth around $68. With dynamic pricing that ticket for an "A' game (most are in the summer and September) is $89. Even the cheap games in April the same ticket costs more individually. So the team actually makes more money on non-season tickets which when you have a competitive team down the stretch will sell out.

 

I would add Happ as one of the big trade pieces on the team. Has another year left on his deal so you can get a pretty good return for him I'd imagine. Joe Smith if he comes back healthy too.

[Spanky99]

The line is "what is your major malfunction" not primary.

 

lol... thanks!

[Abomination]

I would say "for Toronto it's all about perception of what the team will be" 2013 sold as many season tickets as 2015 did. If there is no direction for the future, the attendance will fall next year. Last place this year with moves that the fans see as positive (something likely not to happen from this front office as fans usually love the worst of the free agent signings) and the fans buy in the off season.

 

As for trading Donaldson I don't see that now is the time unless you are blown away and I'm not sure what team would do that. If the Jays are still struggling at the deadline, I see this as the priority of trades.

 

1. Estrada (should return a Young pitcher...if the Rangers aren't selling should be one of the most interesting rentals available)

2. Goins (should have been a National already...we will take nothing, something, anything. This is just a present for me at this point.

3. Osuna (not a priority but could provide the most return, I don't think he's essential to next year success)

4. Bautista (he wasn't appealing to many in the off-season so how does the current version draw enough in trade to make it worth while to trade him...and how the f*** does a career 130 wRC+ vs. LHP have a 42 wRC+ through 83 PA's this year). Again I don't think the return is there.

 

I really like the idea of dealing Osuna. Teams would control him for another 3.5 years, and he's demonstrated he's in one of the top tiers of closers (step behind a Kimbrel / Chapman class). Given his age, team control, and salary, he should bring in two blue chip prospects on the MLB bubble at the very least imo. I'll take a high end position player prospect over a guy who only pitches one inning with a lead any day.

[fatcowxlive]

For the majority of baseballs players they sign with whoever offers them the most term and most $. I wouldn't expect Donaldson to be any different. They have pressure from their agents and the PA to take the biggest deal as that impacts other players in future negotiations.

 

Hence why Donaldson himself plays a big role here. If he's not committed to the team long term here then it's in our best interest to trade him for the future. In short I don't want another EE/Bautista situation.

[Spanky99]

I think everyone here agrees this team will be selling, and in reality that is better for our long term outlook.

The question is, if you were GM would you trade JD?

Pay him 20+ mil next year and go for it again, only to let him walk?

Sign him for 7+ years?

 

Obviously depends on the return. I'm no prospect guru (especially the last couple years as our team has been so entertaining), but if you are and vote sell JD...throw in a potential target we could go after.

 

I just looked at the post again, lol... don't lead or anything!

[John_Havok]

The line is "what is your major malfunction" not primary.

 

Thanks, I had 3 paragraphs typed up and forgot to hit send... came back and saw your post and realized I went overboard.

 

It's a weird pet peeve of mine, badly quoted or misquoted movie lines.

[billjc33]

Osuna to nationals for Robles of, Glover rhp, and Watson lhp.

 

Donaldson to Red Sox for Devers 3b, Johnson lhp, and reclamation Trey Bell rhp.

 

Just a dream to actually turn these assets into legit top prospects. Could you imagine having 4 of the top 10 prospects in all of baseball. Plus a good pick in next years draft. We really need to reload our pitching though and these proposals are position player heavy. This won't sell seats in the dome for 4-5 years but I'm willing to wait.

 

I know proposal posts are lame but it's fun to dream. As you can see from my proposal I have no problem dealing with Bos or NYY. Donaldson is going to break down let them pay him 20+ million a year.

[John_Havok]

Osuna to nationals for Robles of, Glover rhp, and Watson lhp.

 

Donaldson to Red Sox for Devers 3b, Johnson lhp, and reclamation Trey Bell rhp.

 

Just a dream to actually turn these assets into legit top prospects. Could you imagine having 4 of the top 10 prospects in all of baseball. Plus a good pick in next years draft. We really need to reload our pitching though and these proposals are position player heavy. This won't sell seats in the dome for 4-5 years but I'm willing to wait.

 

I know proposal posts are lame but it's fun to dream. As you can see from my proposal I have no problem dealing with Bos or NYY. Donaldson is going to break down let them pay him 20+ million a year.

 

Yeah I get your dream .... but Osuna would never return Robles alone let alone Robles++

 

The Donaldson for Devers++ thing is more realistic though.

[Caper]

Who would need Smoak? Surely you try getting something for Smoak.

[John_Havok]

Who would need Smoak? Surely you try getting something for Smoak.

 

Smoak is a tough sell I think given his history, but St. Louis desperately needs an impact bat in their lineup.

[Dick_Pole]

As a contender you have the opportunity to acquire the player with the second highest WAR total in the previous two seasons and people are coming here with excuses like "everyone else has third base covered"? If you have Donaldson available to you for the next 1.5 seasons, you MAKE room on your roster for him.

 

Maybe the Astros? Move Bregman to OF or add something with Donaldson to get Bregamn? /shurgs/ But yeah, can't say I see a whole lot either. 3B is stacked.

Too bad the Mets suck. Would have been good trading partners.

 

Eh? If there is a deal centered around Donaldson for Bregman that's not straight up it's not the Jays who should be the ones adding.

[Ray]

Really has to be the perfect storm for the Donaldson trade to happen. Realistically, he can only go to a team that can afford to take his ~$20 million price tag. On top of that, that team both has to have a gaping hole at 3B and be looking to compete either this season or next. And also have the right prospects to give up.

 

Red Sox are the ones that make sense this season, but they just might take their chances and call up Devers and see if he sticks.

 

Mets make sense for next season (assuming David Wright is still going to be out), but if Amed Rosario comes up and performs well, he's an in house solution as well.

 

I was thinking Cardinals early on because Peralta was awful, but Gyorko seems to be killing it for them.

 

Giants make sense too, but they have nothing in terms of prospect capital to give up.

 

Pirates make sense if Kang is still out, but we'd probably have to eat some salary for them to be able to afford him.

[SAAviour]

I just looked at the post again, lol... don't lead or anything!

 

What's the problem Sparky?

[Slade]

[Spanky99]

As a contender you have the opportunity to acquire the player with the second highest WAR total in the previous two seasons and people are coming here with excuses like "everyone else has third base covered"? If you have Donaldson available to you for the next 1.5 seasons, you MAKE room on your roster for him.

 

 

 

Eh? If there is a deal centered around Donaldson for Bregman that's not straight up it's not the Jays who should be the ones adding.

 

You're a Dick-Pole, this forum overrates Osuna and underrates JD, period.

[Spanky99]

What's the problem Sparky?

 

Uhmm... Luigi, my point was given... the result speaks volumes, idiot.

[SAAviour]

Uhmm... Luigi, my point was given... the result speaks volumes, idiot.

 

Luigi? Wtf?

[Spanky99]

Luigi? Wtf?

 

Sparky? Wtf?

[SAAviour]

I got a friend nicknamed Sparky, must be built into my auto correct or I just naturally typed it?

 

So, how bout.....what's the problem Spanky?

[Spanky99]

I got a friend nicknamed Sparky, must be built into my auto correct or I just naturally typed it?

 

So, how bout.....what's the problem Spanky?

 

So your comprehension is amiss too... I'm not repeating it, and the vote results tell you why.

[Spanky99]

Where's no?

 

I vote you're dumn... lol @ let him walk.

 

I just looked at the post again, lol... don't lead or anything!

 

I got a friend nicknamed Sparky, must be built into my auto correct or I just naturally typed it?

 

So, how bout.....what's the problem Spanky?

 

So your comprehension is amiss too... I'm not repeating it, and the vote results tell you why.

 

...

[burlingtonbandit]

As a contender you have the opportunity to acquire the player with the second highest WAR total in the previous two seasons and people are coming here with excuses like "everyone else has third base covered"? If you have Donaldson available to you for the next 1.5 seasons, you MAKE room on your roster for him.

 

Well the Cubs aren't going to move Bryant to LF for JD to play 3rd. Same with the Dodgers(Turner), Nats (Rendon), Rockies (Arenado). If you expect the Cubs to run away with the Central, of the teams in contention left you have the Dbacks, Yankees, Red Sox and Astros.

 

Dbacks don't have the prospects or $. That leaves you 3 teams, 2 of which are division rivals. Maybe you can try to get the Yankees and Red Sox to create a bidding way and try to get Devers or Torres + another couple fillers. If the Jays could get Devers I'd probably make that deal but who knows if Shapiro wants to trade their franchise player to the Red Sox.

 

The Wildcard is Donaldson has been really bad lately after that knee injury. Also have to remember you have Frazier and Josh Harrison on the market so the supply/demand for 3rd Baseman isn't great for trying to get a haul.

[Dick_Pole]

Well the Cubs aren't going to move Bryant to LF for JD to play 3rd. Same with the Dodgers(Turner), Nats (Rendon), Rockies (Arenado). If you expect the Cubs to run away with the Central, of the teams in contention left you have the Dbacks, Yankees, Red Sox and Astros.

 

Dbacks don't have the prospects or $. That leaves you 3 teams, 2 of which are division rivals. Maybe you can try to get the Yankees and Red Sox to create a bidding way and try to get Devers or Torres + another couple fillers. If the Jays could get Devers I'd probably make that deal but who knows if Shapiro wants to trade their franchise player to the Red Sox.

 

The Wildcard is Donaldson has been really bad lately after that knee injury. Also have to remember you have Frazier and Josh Harrison on the market so the supply/demand for 3rd Baseman isn't great for trying to get a haul.

 

s***, well in that case I guess the Jays should just release him and hope someone will take him in a salary dump!

 

Shapiro and Atkins aren't Ricciardi, Ash or Anthopolous. You don't need to start making pre-excuses assuming they get a non-optimal return for what will be by far the most elite player made available should the Jays indeed be sellers.

[ChrisS]

You're a Dick-Pole, this forum overrates Osuna and underrates JD, period.

 

I dont agree with this forum overrating Osuna. Despite his struggles in May he has been among the best relief pitchers in Baseball the past 2 months. He has a 1.04 ERA in the post season and can throw 4 pitches. He is also just 22 years old.

 

The issue with JD is his age, he isnt 27 or 28 years old.

[Bobthe4th]

I would say "for Toronto it's all about perception of what the team will be" 2013 sold as many season tickets as 2015 did. If there is no direction for the future, the attendance will fall next year. Last place this year with moves that the fans see as positive (something likely not to happen from this front office as fans usually love the worst of the free agent signings) and the fans buy in the off season.

 

As for trading Donaldson I don't see that now is the time unless you are blown away and I'm not sure what team would do that. If the Jays are still struggling at the deadline, I see this as the priority of trades.

 

1. Estrada (should return a Young pitcher...if the Rangers aren't selling should be one of the most interesting rentals available)

2. Goins (should have been a National already...we will take nothing, something, anything. This is just a present for me at this point.

3. Osuna (not a priority but could provide the most return, I don't think he's essential to next year success)

4. Bautista (he wasn't appealing to many in the off-season so how does the current version draw enough in trade to make it worth while to trade him...and how the f*** does a career 130 wRC+ vs. LHP have a 42 wRC+ through 83 PA's this year). Again I don't think the return is there.

 

We're not getting anything better than a rule 5 candidate for Goins and agree with you that the market for Bautista is extremely limited.

 

Osuna - why would you trade him unless we're going full rebuild in which case every single player should be up for trade. Even if you think next year is a right off, 2019 could easily have Alford, Bo, Vlad, Gurriel all playing, that's nearly half a team that could then be really good in 2020 no matter what happens in the meantime. Osuna has great trade value because he's such a valuable asset as he reached the majors so early, he's still young with 3 more years of control. Lights out relievers are hard to find, incredibly expensive to sign in free agency, and are underrated by WAR.

 

I'd replace those three in your list with:

 

1. Happ - the extra year on his contract makes him a better asset than Estrada for someone like the Astros who could do with pitching for the playoffs.

 

2. Joe Smith - his injury limits his return but we could get a Mark Lowe like return (i.e. what we gave up to get an in form rental reliever) of a few lottery tickets.

 

3. Liriano - similar to Estrada in that his recent performance limits his value, but he can either start or be long relief from the bullpen, and he is left handed, so that means a playoff team would probably give up more than nothing for him.

[G-Snarls]

I don't think it matters we are heading into a long term rebuild. Get the best deal.

 

Am I crazy for thinking that a smart re build now could have us competitive again in 2-3 years???

[Jonn]

Am I crazy for thinking that a smart re build now could have us competitive again in 2-3 years???

 

Sure it could. If everything goes smoothly. More realistic to look at a long term approach. Nobody said we have to lose 100 games every year. But we do need to trade away anything that isn't going to be around long term. Especially while it has value. I just don't see our front office signing Donaldson to a long term deal after his age 32 season.

 

I think we could move Martin for assets if we ate money but Tulo has zero value with how bad his bat has been and his diminishing range. Tulo's bat is slow unless he's lying about an injury almost no reason to seek much of an improvement.

[jays_fever]

If we're rebuilding it almost makes complete sense to just rid out Tulo here.

 

1) Good for the clubhouse/

2) Helps the tank

3) Contract expires around the time BO should be ready

4) Very likable guy which is helpful during the growing pains ( Anti Reyes)

[burlingtonbandit]

s***, well in that case I guess the Jays should just release him and hope someone will take him in a salary dump!

 

Shapiro and Atkins aren't Ricciardi, Ash or Anthopolous. You don't need to start making pre-excuses assuming they get a non-optimal return for what will be by far the most elite player made available should the Jays indeed be sellers.

 

What kind of package do you see the Jays getting and from who exactly?